How the War in Ukraine Might End
New Yorker,
by
Keith Gessen
Original Article
Posted By: MDConservative,
10/1/2022 12:27:23 PM
Hein Goemans grew up in Amsterdam in the nineteen-sixties and seventies, surrounded by stories and memories of the Second World War. His father was Jewish and had hidden “under the floorboards,” as he put it, during the Nazi occupation. When Goemans came to the United States to study international relations, he recalled being asked in one class about his most formative personal experience of international relations. He said that it was the Second World War. The other students objected that this wasn’t personal enough. But it was very personal for Goemans.
Reply 1 - Posted by:
Dodge Boy 10/1/2022 1:42:10 PM (No. 1292655)
OP, good post. Gessen puts a lot out there to think about. While I have always found it rather odd that Ukraine would be fought over by so-called conventional warfare and a few high-tech weapons, Putin's determination to defeat Ukraine stems from NATO's expansion in Europe following collapse of the former Soviet Union. Putin has made it clear in the past that he desires restoration of the former Soviet Union. But the west has said, "nyet".
If one looks at a map of NATO membership pre- and post-1997, for example, NATO's expansion is rather obvious. And one would wonder if a current-day woke-NATO which desires Russia to further disintegrate in the interests of the Great Reset and the new world order is Putin's red line.
What will bring an end to the war and who will win? Hein Geomans believes that Ukraine will eventually win, but what achieves this outcome in his mind is not clear...yet.
10 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
Red Jeep 10/2/2022 7:38:38 AM (No. 1293149)
With Putin's army in ruins wouldn't now be a good time for a super power to invade and take over Russia?
6 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
walcb 10/2/2022 8:30:21 AM (No. 1293186)
No not a good time to "take over Russia". Russia would certainly use nuclear bombs if that is attempted--and as many as they have.
12 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
Strike3 10/2/2022 8:42:15 AM (No. 1293200)
Ukraine and half of Europe blown off the map and under a radioactive dust cloud. That will really anger the Greenies.
11 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
bpl40 10/2/2022 8:47:24 AM (No. 1293204)
How will the Ukraine war end? Most probably not like WW II - on the deck of a battleship, the enemy standing hat in hand. It will end (when) both parties find it impossible to continue the pretense. Russia pretending it is able to annex Ukraine and establish the old Soviet Union. NATO (whatever that is) tacitly admitting that expansion has reached it's practical limit and no more is possible without risking devastating consequences. IMO, Germany and France have already reached that conclusion. US and UK for their own reasons are yet to get there. If it lasts that long, my guess is if Trump wins in '24 he will stop it like Truman stopped Korea. The official solution allowing both sides to save face and declare 'victory'.
11 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
bigfatslob 10/2/2022 9:28:49 AM (No. 1293245)
How do we want our winter served up? Freezing in the dark for lack of energy because the greenies demand it or a nuclear one which makes Putin at least die a happy Soviet. We have to sit and watch two high profile idiots run and ruin the world.
3 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
Speedypetey 10/2/2022 9:30:11 AM (No. 1293247)
A war started by Putin? After President Trump halted the genocide by Ukraine militias against ethnic Russians in the eastern provinces they restarted the rampage and then the Ukraine cut the water off to the Crimea island. The positive in this death, maiming and devastation is 11 fascist USA funded bioweapons labs are ashes.
11 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
MDConservative 10/2/2022 9:46:56 AM (No. 1293259)
#5 - Your history is a bit off. It was Eisenhower, not Truman, who brought an "end" to the Korean Conflict. He apparently let the Chinese and Koreans understand that the US was prepared to use nukes, and they signed the armistice. In fact, Eisenhower considered this among his top successes in office.
I would suggest that Putin is not "pretending" to annex these areas, but believes he has, and his opinion counts most. Think about that in light of his recent comments about using nukes to defend Russian territory. Maybe the "madman" is bluffing, or just crazy talk, and maybe not - worked for Ike. At this point there is very little for either side that "saves face". Ukraine would have to cede the claimed territory while it is on a military roll to liberate their country - which means betrayal if they agreed. The Russians now "own" the territory, and would have to concede defeat, which would serve to put Putin in a very precarious position, perhaps personally fatal. (Of course, he's ill anyways.) And then there is the matter of NATO and Ukrainian membership or sham affiliation.
The ultimate goal, I believe, is not to reconstruct the Soviet Union but the classic Russian Empire, of which Ukraine is a key component, with Czar Vlad leading this resurgence.
5 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
sherlock1 10/2/2022 11:38:14 AM (No. 1293368)
How might the Ukraine war end? Probably with the death of Putin, probably by natural causes. Then there might be an appetite in Russia to cease holding a dagger to the throat of the world. Russia's WWII mentality has made human life miserable for pushing a century now, and if we are lucky someone will arise there who understands the alternative!
Here's an idea... on his deathbed, Putin names his successor, Donald Trump!! Then in 50 years, Russia doesn't rule the world, but it does own it!
4 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
snowoutlaw 10/2/2022 12:05:33 PM (No. 1293414)
I agree with much of the article but most of the wars mentioned did not end when he says they ended. WWI didn't end in 1918 it ended in 1945. Wars do not truly end until the aggressor is completely destroyed. In this case Putin has to go, it wasn't Russia that invaded it was Putin.
2 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
TCloud 10/2/2022 12:45:35 PM (No. 1293486)
With now very nervous fingers touching the launch keys all debates are meaningless. MAD ends all debates!
3 people like this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
Zigrid 10/2/2022 3:21:45 PM (No. 1293634)
Interesting read...but...no closer conclusion to how this war will end....Putin is the loser so far...his war of a few days has become the many months war of 2021....I think his takeover of the Crimea under obama's term gave him courage to do the same under biden's term...because he knew obama was calling the shots in the Oval Office... and obama doesn't know about world wars...he's only worried about his mansions and how to give a slick speech...and accuse whites of racism...that's it...obama should call putin a white racist... then putin will retire to his bathroom mirror and examine his whiteness....like general milk/toast milley....
1 person likes this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
Robert Jones 10/2/2022 4:07:35 PM (No. 1293679)
Like General Patton, President Trump is considered lunatics renegade. He was writen if by the media and the “inteligentsia”, Now it seems they were both right!
2 people like this.
Reply 14 - Posted by:
NotaBene 10/2/2022 4:32:43 PM (No. 1293693)
Perhaps the war will end with the dissolution of NATO. We should have not blown up the Nordstream pipelines, condemning Germany to poverty. It is amazing to see the Europeans trusting illegitimate Biden and the Department of State. The war can be ended if the Deep State allowed Donald J. Trump to be chosen in a fair election.
2 people like this.
Reply 15 - Posted by:
Mofongo 10/2/2022 5:07:39 PM (No. 1293719)
It astonishes me that people who reject the "news" they read about the economy, the vaccine or Trump as ludicrous are willing to slurp up, unquestioningly, whole-cloth fiction about the Russia-Ukraine conflict, the parlous state of the Russian military, and Putin's near demise (medically or politically.) Do your research!
2 people like this.
Reply 16 - Posted by:
Lawsy0 10/2/2022 7:08:09 PM (No. 1293810)
Wars and rumors of wars. Who keeps poking the Red Horse?
1 person likes this.
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Something to read and think about. Will Putin launch nukes? Who needs what to "win", and at what cost? Since 1917, however, it has been Total War as the outcome is mutual obliteration, more for the loser facing existential defeat. And given that this may have been settled early by negotiations, apparently scuttled by NATO hovering to expand into Ukraine, as it has Finland and Sweden, it is now reduced to neither side can afford to lose. Ready for this war? It may be coming to American forces...er, NATO.