Cruising Towards WW3?
Meaning In History,
by
Mark Wauck
Original Article
Posted By: Judy W.,
9/12/2022 8:46:19 AM
I want to recommend an article by Russia observer Gilbert Doctorow, which was linked by Moon of Alabama. The article ranges widely, but I’ll focus for the most part on the issue raised in the title:
U.S. ups the ante: are we indeed headed into WWIII and what can save us?
(Snip) In the last few days we have officially learned—from no less than Fiona Hill!—what has long been known. Russia and Ukraine, in April, were on the verge of a peace agreement. That was back in April, when the two sides were meeting and talking in Istanbul.
Reply 1 - Posted by:
bpl40 9/12/2022 8:56:52 AM (No. 1275269)
Ask yourselves - What does this have to do with US elections? The more you think the more frightening it gets.
8 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
Ashley Brenton 9/12/2022 8:59:12 AM (No. 1275272)
One would first have to assume that Putin is both genocidal and suicidal. He isn't.
10 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
BarryNo 9/12/2022 9:10:10 AM (No. 1275285)
Get rid of all Democrat Politicians? If they aren't Evil, they're crazy. Some social sanitation might be in order.
14 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
FormerDem 9/12/2022 9:33:46 AM (No. 1275310)
If Russia succeeded in taking over Ukraine, what country in your view would have been invaded next, and on what time frame? Considering invasions of Poland in 1939, East Germany in 1945, Hungary in 1956, Czechoslovakia in 1968, Afghanistan in 1979, Syria in 2015, Georgia in 2008, Crimea in 2014. And considering that they have clearly prepared to link up the land corridor in the south of Ukraine with their enclave Transnistria? And that they have hinted during the last six months that they have their eyes on everything that was once theirs, significantly including the Baltics? And that they have had Istanbul as a military goal for centuries, and nearly got it in WW II. Or do you imagine they were going to stop at Ukraine?
8 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
lakerman1 9/12/2022 9:48:26 AM (No. 1275321)
Fiona Hill a senior diplomat? What the hell??
8 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
MDConservative 9/12/2022 10:08:17 AM (No. 1275333)
Let's not go off the deep end. Russia holds the NATO/EU trump card - energy supplies. Easy to restrict that flow, and there's not much the Euros can do but whine and fume. War is a far way off. Waiting for the Russia hate campaign to begin first. Can't mobilize for war without one.
3 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
Kate318 9/12/2022 10:32:40 AM (No. 1275350)
The goal of annihilation of Russia has taken on a manic imperative from the West. I’ve never seen anything like it, and I go back to Vietnam. I can only imagine the dirt Putin has on the Ukraine, the US, the EU and NATO…just to mention a few. And therefore, just like Trump, Russia must be destroyed. Don’t kid yourself that poor Zelensky is the good guy, fighting the noble fight. Ukraine is a cesspool of corruption, and every single Western country and most politicians on both sides have their noses deep in the trough. That’s all this is about.
15 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
DVC 9/12/2022 11:52:11 AM (No. 1275437)
Putin intends to move his borders farther out, to control more defensible areas which have been historic paths for invading armies to move into Russia. Russians are paranoid of invasion based on the fact that they have been repeatedly invaded from the 1300s onward, many times. This invasion paranoia is almost in their DNA, certainly embedded deep in their cultural heritage. And in more recent times, Napoleon invaded, and within living memory, the Wehrmacht came close to taking control of the country and killed many millions of Russians.
Stalin bought his buddy Adolph's assurances that they were allies, and then learned that, once again, Russia was invaded by an overwhelmingly powerful army. They fell back 1,000 miles, moved factories back east behind the Urals Mountains. They have learned to trust mountains as barriers to invasion, again from centuries of experience. Plains routes between mountain chains are fearful things to them.
Americans, with several thousand miles of oceans on the east and west, and benign neighbors to the north and south are not able to grasp this primal fear of invasion, and pooh-pooh it, saying it isn't real. This failure to grasp this fundamental characteristic of Russian culture is a major mistake.
Putin does intend to move through Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia to control the Polish plains invasion route, and through Ukraine to Romania to control that route. The Russians see this as an existential threat, and unless they fail in Ukraine, they will move on westward because they see that their demographic cards, dealt decades ago and unchangeable, show that in 10 -15 years they will be certain to have a much smaller army. They need to have only a few invasion routes available, and they need to be defended so that this necessarily smaller army can defend the country.
If you or I believe it is real or not, real threat or not, Putin believes it and believes it is a real threat, and that is what drove the Soviets to take the former Eastern Bloc and drives Putin and probably his successors, whoever they may be - raised in the same culture, taught the same history and told the same children's tales of a real invasion by their parents and grandparents.
Putin has no intention of stopping if he takes Ukraine. That is just step one. He is either stopped there by Ukrainians with our help, or NATO will be fighting Russia in multiple NATO countries.
Yes, it stinks.
Yes, it is dangerous as hell.
Yes, I wish it were not so.
But we didn't select this war, and regardless of the facile claims, we didn't "egg him on". Putin chose this path, based on centuries of Russian culture and history, driven by demographics to happen now.
Old Chinese Curse:
May you live in interesting times.
Personally, I'd rather things were a good bit less interesting.
6 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
stablemoney 9/12/2022 12:07:17 PM (No. 1275449)
I am not participating in any Ukraine or WW3 wars. Biden and Milley will have to fight it alone.
7 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
MDConservative 9/12/2022 12:15:11 PM (No. 1275456)
#8 - Putin may be imbued with defense of Mother Russia, a mad man, and he's not stupid. His military has certainly proved its ineptitude and inability to advance against cast-off NATO weapons. To invade the Baltic members of NATO would be folly. Same goes with Romania, another NATO member. Any one of those invaded by Russia would set off European Armageddon, and likely not end well for Russia, or anyone.
NATO played its cards by reportedly encouraging Ukraine to fight while continuing to expand eastward. Russia is playing its cards slowly, restricting energy flow to the West (NATO). NATO is supposedly a "defensive alliance" that will have a hard time peddling Russia hate, particularly in the US. Not that it hasn't been tried already with the flow of propaganda painting Ukraine as victim of barbarism - from shelling hospitals to rapes and murders by Russian troops.
Ukraine/NATO can ratchet the fighting up, run the Russians out altogether, and watch the gas flow shrink to extinction. Those green Euros, especially the Germans, won't like that. And the Bundeswehr is not going to march on Moscow. It couldn't get across the Oder in its current state. I suspect the US cheerleaders will be largely ignored. There is no apparent US national interest at stake...not even cold Germans. This is wholly a European matter, and they're far from all in themselves. Have the Croatians gone home yet?
2 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
bigfatslob 9/12/2022 12:45:58 PM (No. 1275474)
Milley and Austin will have to go it alone with the brilliant CIC I'll never go to war again for any politician. I paid my dues at nineteen years old, never again.
6 people like this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
DVC 9/12/2022 5:06:43 PM (No. 1275623)
Re #10, I find it amazing that countries on the border of Russia, having been under the oppressive boot heel of Russians in the Soviet Union for the better part of a century, finally freed, and very desirous to REMAIN free of the Russian boot heel, and therefore banding together with other countries who wish to remain free of Russian oppression ......as "expanding to the east".
No, they are trying to RESIST the very real Russian urge to conquor them, as has been done multiple times to these countries. And they didn't like it, and are willing to fight hard to avoid Russian oppression again.
We in the USA expanded nothing at all. We have permitted fearful countries to join together with other fearful countries to try to deter Russian aggression.
And yet, somehow trying to join together peacefully to deter Russian aggression is now redefined as "egging on Putin" or "trying to peel Ukraine away from Russia" or whatever......as if Russia somehow has an endless right to control Ukraine because the bizarre Russian psyche is paranoid? They have no such right and the Ukrainains, Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians want to remain free, and they have every right to resist Russian agression.....AGAIN.
Russia is paranoid about being invaded.....and yet THEY are the actual invaders in this Fun House Mirrored version of reality that we are thrust into.
I want Russians FREE and SAFE.....in their own damned country and leaving their neighbors alone.
And I strongly believe if Russia is not stopped in Ukraine, we will be forced to fight them directly in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. I don't even know if Romania is in NATO, I think it is not, but am not sure.
Dangerous and frightful times. Being stupid and misinformed about it will only increase the risks.
1 person likes this.
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Comments:
I'm more frightened of nuclear war than I've been since the Cuba missile crisis. How can we go on for more than two years with an administration that is bound and determined to get us into a war with Russia, and pulling much of Europe along with it? I remember reading about that meeting in April, and how the U.S. nixed the peace agreement which seemed perfectly reasonable. It hasn't been mentioned much since then.