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God and the Trump Shooting

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Posted By: Beardo, 7/28/2024 12:31:29 PM

It seems like I’m constantly trying to come to an understanding or at least a settled position on how God involves himself in human affairs. The Trump shooting brought that to the surface again, simply because it couldn’t be scripted -- it felt beyond consequence. Also, many people of faith, including people that I see as nuanced and intelligent began claiming that it was almost beyond question, an act of God (Ben Shapiro, for instance). I’ve been all over the board over the years from “there’s no understanding God’s involvement” to determinism (more early in my Christian life), to compatibility, meaning that paradoxically God’s sovereignty and free will aren’t mutually exclusive.

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Reply 1 - Posted by: franq 7/28/2024 12:51:15 PM (No. 1767862)
Good read. He lays it out as clearly as possible. Regarding determinism, I also used to struggle with it, (especially Calvinism and Armenianism) but came to believe the truth is in the middle. We are not puppets.
10 people like this.

Reply 2 - Posted by: Italiano 7/28/2024 12:52:37 PM (No. 1767864)
Option 1.
5 people like this.

Reply 3 - Posted by: philsner 7/28/2024 1:03:52 PM (No. 1767868)
There are things about God we cannot know. Christians call them "mysteries". God IS involved! After all, he created everything that was created. We ask that God's will be done and leave the rest to him. We are instructed to have faith. It is humans who call bad things that happen "acts of God". Blaming God is not something I will do.
14 people like this.

Reply 4 - Posted by: ARKfamily 7/28/2024 1:13:00 PM (No. 1767881)
#3, I have in my kitchen a sign that say, "God doesn't give us what we can handle, He helps us handle what we are given". We all have "Godwink" moments and they are God's mysterious ways!
19 people like this.

Reply 5 - Posted by: wilarrbie 7/28/2024 1:20:32 PM (No. 1767886)
Thank you thank you !! for posting.
10 people like this.

Reply 6 - Posted by: Birddog 7/28/2024 1:32:22 PM (No. 1767892)
The difference between life and death, catastrophe and "just a normal day" is often millimeters and milliseconds, I've had dozens of near death experiences in my younger days, gunfire, industrial accidents, motorcycle and car accidents, 14 car wrecks where the vehicle was totaled, only one of which was my fault, several drug overdoses, people right next to me killed, I used to think those events indicated I was one of the unluckiest people in the world, I now see them as being one of THE luckiest people in the world. Father Ed Dowling once said "I have to believe the only difference between heaven and hell is a New Pair of Glasses", an altered perspective, a new prism through which to view...and all of our perception DOES pass through a prism of personal perspective in one way or another. I used to be an evangelical atheist, was bound and determined that there was no Gawd, and compelled to prove it to any and all.One night I was soooo miserable, the woman I had been out with the night before was killed, and it was at least partially my fault, that I made a challenge to something I didn't believe in, on the off chance that maybe, just maybe....I WAS granted a sign, and in disbelief, thinking it was mere coincidence/happenstance demanded "Do that again". It was repeated immediately. I went from someone who sincerely believed there was no such thing as god, no such thing as miracles, to KNOWING there is a god, and there is nothing but miracles. I do not believe in god, I do not "believe" I am 6'1", or "Believe" that my eyes are blue, these are incontrovertible, FACTS that I KNOW to be true. God IS. My task from that day to this is to try to understand how to bend and match my life to what god wants from me(not for me), "It is a fathers good pleasure to give unto his children all things" to be of service to the rest of "Gods KIds". I do my best to do no harm, to help constantly anyone that comes onto my path in any way I can, even if just offering a kind word, a complement, a smile, an opened door, a reach to a high shelf for the short, a "You go first" at a door, an intersection, or a line. To be an asset to others, my neighborhood, the world...to make up for the years I was a problem to them all. Yes there is Evil in the world, intentional evil and harm, but as much or more is caused by self centered, selfish, inconsideration...not caring what harm comes to others in quest of personal power, status or gain. Ego rather than Evil. An egotist has an over inflated sense of self,and makes it's related demands upon others. An Ego-ist has a 1st person singular perspective on the world and zero consideration of others...I try to have a 4th dimensional Birdseye/gods eye view of the world, my place and actions in it, and the pebble in a pond effects caused by me, and those by others. I used to feel dirty inside, and baaad things kept happening to me and around me that really were not my fault. Now? I feel clean inside and gooood things keep happening to me and around me that...really are not my fault. It Works.
26 people like this.

Reply 7 - Posted by: DVC 7/28/2024 2:06:39 PM (No. 1767913)
A well thought out and well stated point. I can agree with that. The adult child comparison is an apt one. Protecting a child from all things all too often creates a rotten, spoiled, arrogant brat. Character comes from working for and earning things, and things given to you easily are not much valued, whether it is a parent or from God. A good Christian friend when we were discussing how incredibly close that bullet passed, I said "He reached out and just touched the bullet." My shooter friend just puffed his cheeks and did a little "whoof" noise, meaning that "He just blew lightly deflect that bullet just enough."
9 people like this.

Reply 8 - Posted by: Cindiana 7/28/2024 2:07:25 PM (No. 1767914)
#6 shares one of the most beautiful posts I've ever read here. Sharing a story of the evolution of one's life, including the worst lows and shortcomings, is very powerful and inspiring. If only more people could open themselves to such a journey. Imagine the world we'd have if that were to happen. God has blessed the poster with an eternity of peace.
19 people like this.

Reply 9 - Posted by: dbdiva 7/28/2024 2:28:45 PM (No. 1767927)
Totally agree with #8 and many thanks to #6 for sharing such an inspiring story. I found it as interesting as the posted article.
13 people like this.

Reply 10 - Posted by: FormerDem 7/28/2024 3:20:53 PM (No. 1767949)
If God were so predictable, everyone would hide guns under churches. don't expect that.
1 person likes this.

Reply 11 - Posted by: synchronicity 7/28/2024 3:55:11 PM (No. 1767959)
Thank you #6! CS Lewis said that friendship is born at that moment when you say to another person "What, you too, I thought I was the only one." This KNOWING has also made all the difference in my life.
8 people like this.

Reply 12 - Posted by: PrayerWarrior 7/29/2024 12:15:43 AM (No. 1768170)
To Know Him (Jesus) is to have eternal life. It's that simple.
1 person likes this.

Reply 13 - Posted by: PrayerWarrior 7/29/2024 12:31:15 AM (No. 1768171)
A thought on God involves himself in human events. It is my belief as an intercessor of over 40 years that God works within limits to Himself to His people/peoples prayers/praying. For example, because millions of peoples have been praying for President Trump's safety and protection, I believe the Lord answered those prayers in a way that was miraculous and showed believers He hears and answers prayers. That one bullet didn't have to even touch Trump, but it showed God's Hand was there in response to our prayers. As far as Cory dying, he was a believer and it is comforting to know he is in heaven today. We leave the other questions to Him.
3 people like this.

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It seems like I’m constantly trying to come to an understanding or at least a settled position on how God involves himself in human affairs. The Trump shooting brought that to the surface again, simply because it couldn’t be scripted -- it felt beyond consequence. Also, many people of faith, including people that I see as nuanced and intelligent began claiming that it was almost beyond question, an act of God (Ben Shapiro, for instance). I’ve been all over the board over the years from “there’s no understanding God’s involvement” to determinism (more early in my Christian life), to compatibility, meaning that paradoxically God’s sovereignty and free will aren’t mutually exclusive.
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