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Why Government Computers Are Such a Mess

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Posted By: ladydawgfan, 2/13/2025 2:44:38 AM

Every so often, I get reminded that I'm old, and I've been programming for almost 60 years, which is a long time. But 60 years in the business means I've seen a lot of things that young naïve programmers have never seen. This comes up often when people talk about DOGE and the Wizards Academy Musk has put together to help investigate fraud, abuse, and, probably most of all, bureaucratic stupidity. One of the things I see people — technical people, but young — saying about things like Social Security and the IRS is things like "just dump the whole database into Hadoop."

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I don't know much if anything about computer coding, but even I know that these government records are a complete and utter mess, just waiting to be exploited by someone with evil intentions.

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Reply 1 - Posted by: EJKrausJr 2/13/2025 3:06:18 AM (No. 1895252)
It still happens with today's programming. The date sort function often does not work. Neither ascending nor descending is the date sort correct. Could it be that the H1B folks doing the computer work don't understand how to code sorts? Or is it that modern day Java or Pi or whatever language being used can't handle date sorts? Don't blame the latter. Blame the former.
2 people like this.

Reply 2 - Posted by: FL_Absentee_Voter 2/13/2025 3:20:16 AM (No. 1895258)
Among other problems, the author cites lack of a unified database for SSN's - multiple individuals can (and do) have the same number but there's no interconnectivity among the various databases to identify and flag the glitch. Add to this mess the Federal Government's cumbersome acquisition process for new hardware and software. From requests for proposals to contract award takes years, and the systems finally delivered and installed are that far behind the rapidly-advancing state of the art from the day they go online.
4 people like this.

Reply 3 - Posted by: Strike3 2/13/2025 5:44:52 AM (No. 1895307)
It's very irritating when people deride somebody by advising them to "learn to code." Programmers have been automating the tedious processes done by businesses and government since the late 1960s and have to account for things like unformatted data and the date rollover in the year 1999 that caused headaches all over the world. Everything from your bank accounts to your medical records to your bill paying is controlled by computer software. Every year that the IRS makes changes to further complicate your tax returns must be coded, tested and ready for the following tax year. Concerning dates, in old data bases they can be found in MMDDYY, YYMMDD, YYMM, etc. with or without the century code. You get all kinds of sorting errors but the one I found most amusing was a baby born in a hospital in Massachusetts that was 100 years old at birth. It baffled hospital management but the computer programmer knew exactly what to fix.
9 people like this.

Reply 4 - Posted by: jeffkinnh 2/13/2025 7:54:38 AM (No. 1895384)
While all this may be true, there is a reason that the government computers will ALWAYS be a mess. Consider, you and billions of others can log in to their banking, investment, loan, ... accounts and receive up-to-date, accurate information. There is great legal weight on the people that provide this information for it to be accurate and secure. We expect payments and receipts to be managed reliably and quickly. Why is this true and required but in government it seems impossible and accepted that their systems will always be messed up? It is because the business systems are run for profit and a portion of the money made is used to make sure everything is up to date, accurate,and run as efficiently as possible. For government, such systems are always a cost sink with NO income to pay for it. The government always sinks to the lowest costs and gives itself excuses for the lousy outcomes. Consider that even systems like Social Security would be better privatized since your money could earn and the system would be run to the highest, modern standards. All we have from government is an IOU from a badly run system that is heading for bankruptcy. Government is the worst solution to individual needs and will never provide service, reliability, or dependability. Further, it's not a bug, it's a feature.
7 people like this.

Reply 5 - Posted by: chumley 2/13/2025 8:03:07 AM (No. 1895392)
I was in government computers until the late 1990s. Back then every squadron had its own servers which were connected to HQ by modems. If the modems (or a squadron server) went down, the other squadrons could still operate. Then one fine day some genius decided we should put in fiber optic lines and run the whole Air Force from a base located in another state. No more data stored locally. One grenade in the right manhole and the whole base goes computer dark. That was one of my introductions to the foolishness of upgrade fever.
5 people like this.

Reply 6 - Posted by: DCGIRL 2/13/2025 9:00:31 AM (No. 1895419)
Government systems need to talk with each other. Each agency wants to own their computer databases and none are compatible.. They do not talk to each other which creates serious problems. For instance, DOD systems do not talk to VA systems. VA should be able to access DoD files for military. WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY AND RESOURCES. Paper files are still in play. Please President Trump, clean up the ENTIRE government computer systems (databases). This would allow a more efficient government and less fraud.
3 people like this.

Reply 7 - Posted by: LC Chihuahua 2/13/2025 10:10:49 AM (No. 1895462)
Worked for a computer software and hardware manufacturers for 26 years. One thing that surprised me was how many customers used computer operating systems out of service for over a decade. Why? Because they WORKED! They would go years without any outages. Eventually they would outgrow their old platform though. They would only upgrade if they installed some newer product that required more modern code. Often they would go to an entirely different platform. The other thing would be the old hardware would eventually breakdown and they discovered the only replacement they could find was used. The people maintaining these systems would eventually retire and someone new would come in. After getting over the shock of seeing this old computer system still in use, they would talk to management and convince them it was time to modernize.
3 people like this.

Reply 8 - Posted by: DVC 2/13/2025 11:12:15 AM (No. 1895500)
Time to totally revamp ALL OF IT. Whatever it takes, literally.
1 person likes this.

Reply 9 - Posted by: paral04 2/13/2025 11:40:04 AM (No. 1895525)
We spend masses of money on Y2K and did a lot of remedial work to make dates valid for the new century and while doing so the processing procedures were documented. Where are they? Getting how much was spent, why and who got it is not exactly a challenge.
1 person likes this.

Reply 10 - Posted by: Strike3 2/13/2025 12:22:14 PM (No. 1895565)
Exactly, #9. Everybody in the world knew that the year 2000 was coming. The logic of when was indisputable, so why did many companies and the government wait until the years 1998 or 1999 to decide what to do and declare it an emergency? Changes could have been made in the 1980s. Documentation in an emergency is considered a secondary problem and in many cases is not addressed. The horror stories about what was going to happen abounded, planes crashing, the electric grid going dark, people dying in hospitals. Luckily that did not happen but luck was definitely involved. I only remember 1999 as the busiest year of my life with the popular question of "Is it done yet?" being the most frequently asked.
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