Ukraine claims hundreds of Russians killed
by missile attack
BBC News,
by
Elsa Maishman
&
Sam Hancock
Original Article
Posted By: Dreadnought,
1/2/2023 10:22:59 AM
Ukraine says around 400 Russian soldiers have died in a missile attack on the occupied Donetsk region.
Russian officials have contested the figure, admitting to only 63 of their troops being killed in the blast. Neither claim has been verified.
The attack hit a building in the city of Makiivka, where Russian forces were thought to be stationed.
Meanwhile in Kyiv, air raids sounded on Sunday night, as the latest wave of strikes from Russia continued. In a statement on Monday, Russia's defence ministry said Ukrainian forces fired six rockets using the US-made Himars rocket system at a building housing Russian troops. Two of them were shot down, it added.
Reply 1 - Posted by:
marbles 1/2/2023 10:25:26 AM (No. 1369164)
Stop at " Ukraine claims ". Anything and everything after that is a self serving lie.
10 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
chance_232 1/2/2023 10:50:44 AM (No. 1369198)
Ukraine claims 400, with no evidence. Russia claims 63.....
So..... I'll spilt the difference and call it 120.
5 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
NYBruin 1/2/2023 11:01:21 AM (No. 1369211)
Your tax dollars at work.
5 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
bigfatslob 1/2/2023 11:20:05 AM (No. 1369234)
I watch this Ukraine said, on You Tube its mostly propaganda looped video and some are realistic video games made to fake out the warmongers in the United States to take our money. I don't believe all of this BS coming from the track suit boy, Zelinsky. FTU
6 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
DVC 1/2/2023 11:25:02 AM (No. 1369238)
I think #2 is probably on the right track. "Fog of war" is a real thing, and over claiming is nothing new, or even always particularly nefarious.
After WW2, a lot of historians looked at various air battles and claims of aircraft shot down by both sides. They compared US or Britain claims on a particular day, at a particular location,to German records of how many planes failed to return. And if the German fighter pilots had claimed to shoot down a number of Allied planes, how many were actually destroyed, based on Allied records of aircraft lost? The same was done in the Pacific with Japanese and American losses.
Results were somewhat uneven, but both sides seemed to claim about 30-50% more aircraft than were actually destroyed. Probably mostly not just intentional lying, but the fog of war.....you see hits on an aircraft, smoke pours out and the aircraft dives straight down.....then you are distracted by a stream of tracers blowing past your cockpit and don't actually see it crash. In reality, the pilot isn't hit, smoke in the cockpit and the engine is running badly, so he dives away. The high speed clears the smoke, and he just manages to level out at low altitude and nurse the shot up aircraft home. Several famous pilots had extremely close calls like this. Read of Saburo Sakai's near death experience over Guadalcanal in WW2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabur%C5%8D_Sakai
This reports on not only Sakai overclaiming but, "shot down" Sakai making it back against all odds when seriously wounded.
I take ALL claims by ALL combatants as probably somewhat excessive, with the only really solid information from any war is photos of destroyed equipment, and actual territory controlled. In Ukraine, we have enough people with enough cameras, uploading photos that we probably have a really solid "at least this many" number for destroyed vehicles and aircraft. Probably an undercount, as not every destroyed helo or tank wound up photographed and on the web.
There is actually a volunteer, international ad hoc group (onyx) that tallies destroyed vehicles by photos. They even have people who can identify the difference between a T-72BV from a T-72B1MS to tell us exactly what model of tank was destroyed. I sure can't tell the difference.
I think #2 is probably on the right track. Split the difference is probably not a bad idea. But the middle between 400 and 63 is 231.
In the article it says:
"Igor Girkin, a pro-Russian commentator, said hundreds had been killed and wounded, although the exact number was still unknown because of the large number still missing."
This would seem to mitigate more towards my 200+ guess for all "casualties" which is dead plus wounded. Too many news writers seem to think that "casualty" is a synonym for "dead". It is not.
4 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
Nashman 1/2/2023 11:25:56 AM (No. 1369241)
Lying liars lying. Any statement from the single most corrupt country in the world is suspect. The only reason the elites are doing anything they can to protect Ukraine is to keep their own money laundering records out of Russian hands and to keep the money train running.
8 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
cold porridge 1/2/2023 12:21:48 PM (No. 1369300)
You're exactly right #6. The main stream media and our so-called government keep pushing the lie that Ukraine is making progress in this war so that they can keep the money pour into Ukraine and keep the war going to hide the money laundering going on. Part of the billions of taxpayer dollars that go over to Ukraine comes back to the politicians in DC.
6 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
DVC 1/2/2023 1:11:41 PM (No. 1369332)
And the Russian propaganda that Ukraine is "the most corrupt country" is locked into the brains of so many who are misinformed, disinformed and uninformed.
Is Ukriane corrupt? Well, yeah, about like our country and far, far less than Russia.
3 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
Alecto2 1/2/2023 1:54:51 PM (No. 1369354)
#5 Throwing in WWII fog of war is just a needless distraction. Today, with all the eyes in the sky the real truth is known almost immediately by both sides (Russia firsthand, Ukraine second hand via US/NATO). However, what the propagandists get to report is what they are told to report.
2 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
RedWhiteBlue 1/2/2023 2:49:01 PM (No. 1369389)
Do not trust Ukraine! Europe doesn't!
2 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
bpl40 1/2/2023 5:37:43 PM (No. 1369476)
In wartime, as Churchill said famously, truth must be protected by a bodyguard of lies. In WW II both sides lied. But Goebbels was doing it in service of evil. There is a difference.
1 person likes this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
DVC 1/2/2023 6:37:19 PM (No. 1369502)
Sorry, #9, it applies to ALL WARS that have ever happened. The "It's completely different this time".....is the standard line. Yes, techno differences, new weapons, but frankly, much of what is going on has been horrifically similar to WW1 trench warfare. Neither side can get air superiority, so artillery and artillery rockets are the only distance weapons when you can't expect bombers or attack helos to return from a mission.
And that is .....way too much like WW1 with the mud, trenches and artillery ruling the battlefield.
Drones make for better artillery accuracy, up to a point. Either that or spies among the civilian population are probably how they knew to target this particular building. Better "eyes in the sky" may be the one significant difference in this war. Still.....the historians will know more about the battle than the individuals who fought it. Read any individual soldier's account of war, and they frequently weren't quite sure how their little piece of death and destruction fit into the "big picture" until well after the battle was done, sometimes even until the war was done, since so much is classified during a war.
0 people like this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
Nashman 1/2/2023 7:23:28 PM (No. 1369531)
Sorry #8. Seriously? It’s well known the Ukraine was the money laundering capitol of the world. You need to stop buying Biden state propaganda.
2 people like this.
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