Long Overdue Action on EMP
Power Line,
by
John Hinderaker
Original Article
Posted By: Pluperfect,
3/30/2019 6:09:30 AM
Much of what we read in the news is trivial. This isn’t. I have been hearing about the threat posed by electromagnetic pulses (EMPs) for quite a few years. A high altitude EMP can occur if a nuclear device is detonated over the Earth’s surface. It potentially could wipe out all electrical systems, effectively disabling the United States. Some estimate that an EMP attack could kill 90 percent of Americans. A number of countries, including Russia, China and North Korea, are believed to have the ability to detonate weapons creating one or more EMPs over the U.S. I have no idea
Reply 1 - Posted by:
Trigger2 3/30/2019 6:59:42 AM (No. 17791)
Why did no former president care about EMP? It´s more dangerous than their fake global warming BS. Kuddos to PT.
53 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
plomke 3/30/2019 7:18:24 AM (No. 17786)
EMP is the new Y2K.
Chicken Little never gets old...
34 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
StormCnter 3/30/2019 7:52:47 AM (No. 17773)
The Y2K panic was based on an unknown factor. The EMP situation is widely recognized and understood.
60 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
GO3 3/30/2019 8:28:02 AM (No. 17780)
Yes, it is widely recognized and understood - and exaggerated. Someone just won his lifetime security lotto.
49 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
DCGIRL 3/30/2019 8:50:03 AM (No. 17785)
Something needs to be done on EMP. It would almost be as devastating as a nuclear blast. Millions and millions of people would die. This is not a joke or serious.
35 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
udanja99 3/30/2019 8:59:46 AM (No. 17787)
Yeah, EMPs are no big deal, as long as you’re fine with living in the 19th century.
39 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
Nevadadad46 3/30/2019 9:43:14 AM (No. 17771)
Personally, I am an EMP Denier. I know it is possible, I just refuse to 1) believe they are real and 2) think they can do any significant harm if they are.
It is what it is- like global warming. even if I believed in GW, I can´t do anything about it! So, I´m just going on enjoying my life, eating steaks, farting, drinking carbonated soda pop, driving my car, heating and cooling my overly large home.
EMPs- what´s that? - I´m not gonna go out and waller in the street over them.
27 people like this.
It should be looked into.
In 1859, the Carrington Event occurred and caused havoc with telegraph lines.
Why could something like this not happen again?
28 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
padiva 3/30/2019 10:22:03 AM (No. 17784)
In Gd´s view, it might mark the end of the beginning.
16 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
HotRod 3/30/2019 10:40:59 AM (No. 17792)
When you can´t get your money out of the bank, because EMP shut down the computers and internet, you will suddenly change your mind. You better have a whole lot of cash stashed in your mattress! People who think it is overblown or fake are either ignorant, or think it could never happen.
30 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
GO3 3/30/2019 10:42:41 AM (No. 17774)
Just so I´m clear, I´m not denying effects, However, as I´ve said before,it requires precise targeting, proper yield (usually high yield), determination of space weather at desired altitude, etc. and the delivery systems to make it happen. Not something within the capabilities of only a very few countries. "Suitcase" nukes was another bugaboo post-911. These were state of the state of the art that only a few countries could reliably produce. And they were suitcases in the sense that were in a smallish container weighing 120 lbs. Some suitcase.
23 people like this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
franq 3/30/2019 10:48:18 AM (No. 17770)
In Revelation we read of a battle being fought with 200 million horses. Perhaps western technology will have crumbled, or maybe it is just symbolic. Personally, I believe that electronics will still be necessary for worldwide control of purchasing. Also for the image of the Beast to be broadcast. But there is evidence of prior calamity, where fortunes are brought to naught. So maybe EMP fits in there, then a recovery of electronics occurs.
17 people like this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
jacksin5 3/30/2019 11:08:14 AM (No. 17788)
Everything is imported into population centers. Food, water. electricity etc.
If the deliveries of these items and services were to stop due to an EMP shutting down electronics and communications, the cities would almost instantly go into looting mode.
It would get worse from there. But, like any nuclear doomsday scenario, Mutually Assured Destruction holds this in check.
24 people like this.
Reply 14 - Posted by:
Urgent Fury 3/30/2019 11:36:25 AM (No. 17781)
You guys who are poo-poohing this do realize that EMP=no LDot, right?
29 people like this.
Reply 15 - Posted by:
velirotta 3/30/2019 12:03:42 PM (No. 17779)
Vulnerability to EMP is the most significant Achilles Heel of any nation that is dependent on electronic technology, and what other nation is more fully committed to that technology than we are? A determined enemy wouldn´t need a huge army and tanks, aircraft, etc., to mount an invasion. All it would take would be a couple of relatively small, cheap nuclear devices detonated at high altitude on small rockets or even drones, and the unprotected circuits in all our computers, devices, power-grid controls, etc., are toast. So mock if you will, but several countries who hate us have or will soon have that capability, and we are at present powerless to stop them. If President Trump is taking the initiative to do something about this potential threat, good for him.
30 people like this.
Reply 16 - Posted by:
Axeman 3/30/2019 12:20:53 PM (No. 17783)
EMP can not shut down everything and most things it can shut down can be quickly repaired. There are already backups for many critical functions just because of normal disaster preparedness. It´s effect reduces by the cube of it´s distance so it is localized. If I wanted to take out a city I may as well drop the bomb into the city. Power line surges could travel greater distance but can be absorbed by suppressors and blocked by circuit protection and even blown transformers and other damage, limiting it there. Methods of retaliation will not be much hampered and a quick build up and strike back is guaranteed. No holds barred. The retaliation would be taking place before the first damage was done. It´s not easy to sneak a high altitude nuclear bomb in on someone.
So I, myself, don´t worry specifically about EMP as much as I keep an overall level of preparedness ready for a wide range of disasters. Be prepared! Be the 10% that "some" say will "potentially" survive.
27 people like this.
Reply 17 - Posted by:
seabear 3/30/2019 12:25:36 PM (No. 17772)
Why blame the Obama administration for not doing anything. The US has known of this sense the 1950´s. The Military has been shielding their weapons for years.
16 people like this.
Reply 18 - Posted by:
cor-vet 3/30/2019 1:21:10 PM (No. 17793)
I´m not an EMP denier, but when an article is full of words like ´can occur if´, ´potentially could´, ´estimate ´ and ´are believed´, I have to question the premise.
15 people like this.
Reply 19 - Posted by:
weejun 3/30/2019 2:06:30 PM (No. 17775)
Having worked in the EMP world for over 50 years, here are some facts:
1. High altitude EMP (HEMP) is a real, observed effect from nuclear detonations ( look up the Johnson Island high altitude tests from the sixties).
2. Large yield weapons are not required: the gamma output of the nuclear detonation is the determining facotr, and the upper atmosphere issaturated at a certain gamma yield; altitude and location of the deyonation are more important than yield (but precise altitude is not a requirement for an effective “high altitude “ EMP event.
3. The US has agressively pursued EMP protection for its most critical, time urgent command, control, communications, computer and intelligence (C4I) assests , and most are “EMP-hardened”.
4. What has not been protected are critical infrastructure elements - power, financial institutions, communications (e.g., cell towers and others), and transportation support components (e.g., FAA radrs, towers, etc.).
5. ontrary to some myths perpetrated by some recent fiction novels, modern autos are NOT overly susceptible to EMP ( the auto makers put a lot of money into protecting the electronics in their cars from over voltages/currents to avoid massive warranty issues due to other electrical insults, and these protections actually work pretty well against EMP).
6. EMP protection is a well established science - but it is not cheap. Addressing the potential infrastructure vulnerabilities will require a “triage” approach if it is to be even close to being “affordable”. I hope this helps the discussion..
33 people like this.
Reply 20 - Posted by:
DVC 3/30/2019 3:01:16 PM (No. 17778)
It is a very good move to formalize this, but there have been many substantial changes in the grid over the last 15-20 years which are all working towards making it less likely to be harmed, and more easily repaired if there are large numbers of central power substation transformers damaged by an EMP. A huge change is that there are now, at last count, seven large transformer manufacturers in the US and Canada. There were NONE 20-25 years ago.
Also, the "all cars made after 1970 will never run again" story was always doubtful, and has been shown in EMP testing to be wildly wrong. In fact, the newer cars were MORE resistant to the effects and NONE of the test cars were seriously damaged. Some required turning off the ignition and restarting, a few required disconnecting the battery for a few seconds to reboot the main computer. Many continued to run without effect. The test was not exhaustive, just taking a few dozen differnt cars and testing them. There may be some models which are harmed more, but clearly the stories in the novels are not even close to true.
Yes, household appliances which are plugged in to the wall will likely be damaged, much like they are with a nearby lightning strike. Unplugged units will likely be minimally affected or unaffected.
Thanks to President Trump for doing this, it is long overdue. But the widely repeated claim that "nothing was being done" is counterfactual, made in ignorance, without researching the topic.
15 people like this.
Reply 21 - Posted by:
NWPA 3/30/2019 3:57:08 PM (No. 17789)
Thank you #s 19 and 20 for your very informative posts. EMP is a subject I have read about, and your analysis has helped to allay my fears. If an attack ever occurs, I hope the result is much like Y2K in its nothingburger of consequences.
17 people like this.
I don´t want my country to run on "hope". Get it done Mr Trump and thank you, Sir.
19 people like this.
Reply 23 - Posted by:
DVC 3/30/2019 4:51:13 PM (No. 17790)
EMP is no fake boogeyman, but it is not unrecoverable end of civilization, either. One huge plus is that much of our data transmission (one poster mentioned ´No L-dot´) nowdays, especially for longer lines, but even to my home, now, are optical fiber. The fiber itself will be unharmed in an EMP event. BUT, lots of computers and other ancilliary equipment will be damaged or destroyed, and they all require power, so short term, there will be no internet, no cell phones, and probably no land line phones. BUT, the actual, physical infrastructure of the fiber long haul lines will be unharmed, and that is what would take very long to repair.
I imagine we would have serious disruptions of services like banking, fuel pumping, traffic lights, communications, and many other important things - no credit cards, at least no validation on line. Maybe a very few still have the old mechanical imprinting machines. Some fuel stations will have generators, will pump some fuel. Many/most vehicles will run. It would be very, very disruptive. But the military is largely hardened to EMP, and the power grid recovery will start quickly and probably have some rotating short term power after a few weeks in many areas. "The Grid" would be broken up for quite a while, power would likely be brought up in separate local, smaller grid sections before being linked together again.
Best be able to deal with no power, no comms, no extra food, for a month or so, maybe more. If you cannot do that, think hard about how to minimize the worst impacts to your particular situation. If you get a generator, a large propane tank, good for weeks of use is the best way.
18 people like this.
Reply 24 - Posted by:
Mike22 3/30/2019 8:41:24 PM (No. 17782)
Y2K was real. A great many people working many hours to make sure failures wouldn´t occur prevented virtually every problem.
Sure it was overhyped - isn´t everything that the media can hype? Then when all the catastrophic events they had been hyping did not occur (because we fixed it) they started in with the "it wasn´t real" garbage. The press hyped it, the consulting companies loved it and played it up to increase their revenues. The IT people and engineers simply quietly fixed almost everything.
EMP danger is real. The press is overhyping it. The consulting companies see more dollar signs, as usual, so they are selling apocalypse again. However, the problem should be worked. The problems listed in posts 19, 20 and 23 are quite possible, even probable.
Think of all the items listed above gone and the electricity off due to the loss of many transformers. As noted, replacement would be rapid since we now have the manufacturing facilities to build them. But how quickly? And if the EMP was a deliberate attack might not the manufacturing facilities be targeted? Perhaps by sleeper cells.
I knew an engineer involved in Starfish Prime. His thoughts were that possible EMP damage might be worse than predictions.
If you want to go full prepper, go ahead. Its kind of fun to plan for the EOTWAWKI. Perhaps you should also encourage the government and industry to take sensible action. Because the real thing might not be fun.
36 people like this.
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