Stunning Thread: Warnings Re Ukraine Over
The Decades

Note to Mark Wauck - Ukraine is not part of Russia. Ukraine all through the cold war had its own seat in the UN. It and the Soviets alleged it was an independent republic. After the breakup of the Soviet Union Ukraine and a number of other republics including Russia declared their independence. Nobody is dismembering Russia, but it does appear Russia is trying to reconstitute either the Czarist empire or the Soviet one. The world should not stand by and allow Russia to do that by force. It is 2022 and we don't invade neighboring countries and absorb them into a new empire. Also note that Belarus is not Russia and if it goes to war with Ukraine it probably will not be treated as gently as nuclear armed Russia. Also note that the west offered admittedly vague security guarantees to Ukraine as did Russia itself in return for Ukraine giving up their Soviet era nuclear arsenal. In retrospect probably a mistake on their part. We have a moral obligation and a political security interest in not allowing Russia to gobble up neighboring countries. Also Belarus should take note of the fact that if anything that ever belonged to another country can be taken back by the former owner through the use of force then Poland would be within its right to grab half on Belarus. Yes everybody is playing a dangerous game here, but thuggery cannot be allowed to prevail.

#! - It always depends on whose thuggery you mean. There are no heroic actors in this situation, least of all NATO and the United States, which has absolutely NO NATIONAL INTEREST whatsover. Only the usual "Leader of the Free World" figleaf supporting "freedom" in Ukraine. I again point to the wisdom of George Washington, and his Farewell Address. "Observe good faith and justice towards all nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religion and morality enjoin this conduct; and can it be, that good policy does not equally enjoin it - It will be worthy of a free, enlightened, and at no distant period, a great nation, to give to mankind the magnanimous and too novel example of a people always guided by an exalted justice and benevolence. ...nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection..." It's time to realign ourselves to defending the western flank of the Atlantic, and let the Euros deal with themselves. NATO is no longer a "defensive alliance". By expansion it is an aggressive threat to its sole focus - no longer the Soviet Union, but its successor, Russia. It's time to put down the blue and gold pom poms and start chanting "USA!" will honest, patriotic feeling.

I wonder how we would have reacted had Russia armed Mexico under the guise of protecting them against American aggression and threatened to invite them into an alliance against us.

So we existentially threaten Russia, and when Russia responds to the threats we accuse Russia of thuggery and declare ourselves to be the Saviours. I did not read the entire thread for various reasons, but the only observations I read were that bringing ukraine into NATO would be viewed as an existential threat by Russia and would be destabilizing. I did not read that Ukraine had been a part of Russia or that Ukraine joining NATO would be a dismemberment of Russia. If it's so strategic, why doesn't bidet make a serious speech laying it out. Or is he just trying to sell spots in the DIM bomb shelter to the biggest donors and so limits his speaking engagements to fundraisers?

Noticed it during the Obama years. Not sure how long it's been going on. It seems the US is not satisfied with the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the USSR. The United States seems intent on breaking Russia's back. First, we meddled in Syria while ISIS was setting up its caliphate. Seriously, would rather deal with Syria rather than ISIS. ISIS was trying to capture all of Syria. Then we started meddling in Ukraine. How long before Russia says, 'That's enough'? Emphasized with nuclear weapons. The US seems to think Russia would never resort to nukes or we can survive a nuclear war. This is nuts.

What is with all the Russia suckups around here? Do you think they've stopped being an evil empire just because they changed their name? Those Russians you're slobbering over have a name for people like that -- useful idiots. As far as that "what if the Russians invaded Mexico" meme goes, that's an exercise in moral equivalence that even a libterd would approve of. Do we really have to learn the lessons of the Cold War all over again just because some people think history started with Taylor Swift's change from country to pop trash?

Russia has more nuclear bombs than we do. We have waged a proxy war against them by giving Ukraine billions of dollars worth of our latest weaponry. These weapons have killed thousands of Russian soldiers. Putin is desperate. To believe we can continue this effort against a nuclear power with a power hungry leader without significantly raising the risk of this escalating into a nuclear exchange between Russia and the US is simply whistling past the graveyard. Ukraine has a long history of corruption and Zelensky is part of that corruption. Do your homework if you do not believe this to be true. What do we do if Putin uses a tactical nuke? How many more thousands of women and children being killed in this war will it take before Zelensky changes strategy to pursue a negotiated settlement? Too many innocent non combatants are being slaughtered. Why has this admin not pressured Zelensky to negotiate some type of agreement? Our role is to lead, not blindly follow demands from Ukraine.

LOL . . . did I really create a meme? Awesome. I wondered how that worked. It probably is a dumb thought experiment to consider what-if-the-shoe-were-on-the-other-foot. Critical thinking is overrated. Cuz who in their right mind questions the efficacy of a country that continues to sacrifice its own blood and treasure to arm corrupt thugs in other parts of the world under the guise of "patriotism" and expect positive results? Hot-headed, emotion-based ad hominem attacks are the only dignified way to deal with the kind of slobbering suckup who thinks thinks so crazy.