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B-CR-TEO
Should We Surrender on Bump Stocks?
American Thinker, by David Deming

Original Article

Posted By:dvc, 3/30/2018 12:22:26 PM

In the aftermath of the October 1, 2017 mass shooting in Las Vegas, the Justice Department has proposed a new rule reclassifying "bump stocks" as machine guns. President Trump has condemned bump stocks, and even the National Rifle Association has called for "additional regulations" on "devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles." The new rule would require that all existing bump stocks either be turned in or destroyed without compensation. I don´t own any bump stocks. I have no desire to own a bump stock. I think they´re asinine. It´s the sort of device an eighteen-year-old

Comments:
The key point is that once you agree that a device which by ATF technical definition does NOT create a machine gun, but just facilitates rapid firing of a semiautomatic gun, you open up to the idea that any gun which can be fired "too quickly" can be banned.

Is firing 12 shots from a 6 shot revolver in 3 seconds "too fast"? (Which includes reloading after 6 shots, of course)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNFW8eSzb44

We must never give an inch on gun rights.

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: Fat Elvis, 3/30/2018 12:29:42 PM     (No. 11588112)

No more compromises. Wayne LaPierre and the NRA laid it out very clearly during the Obama junta.
No more discussions
No more compromises

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Reply 2 - Posted by: MattMusson, 3/30/2018 12:37:24 PM     (No. 11588122)

I disagree.

If a bump stock makes the semi-automatic rifle the functional equivalent of a machine gun, then it should be licensed and regulated under the same laws that govern other equipment that turns semi-automatics into automatics. In most cases that means banning.

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.New_S.
  


 
Reply 3 - Posted by: Tundrarider, 3/30/2018 12:46:36 PM     (No. 11588136)

No.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: miceal, 3/30/2018 12:46:36 PM     (No. 11588137)

NO!

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Reply 5 - Posted by: rinohunter, 3/30/2018 1:00:16 PM     (No. 11588150)

Not just NO, but HELL NO!

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Reply 6 - Posted by: Rhythm_Master, 3/30/2018 1:10:48 PM     (No. 11588167)

No, never, nyet

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Reply 7 - Posted by: Hotrod, 3/30/2018 1:46:22 PM     (No. 11588204)

Machine guns and bump stocks don´t kill people. People kill people!

Machine guns were outlawed because of criminals, not because of law-abiding citizens.

Guns of any kind are not intelligent. They don´t just jump up and start killing people. It takes an intelligence to use them in an unlawful way. A defective intelligence.

It´s already against the law to murder. How´s that working? You can´t legislate criminals and defective intelligence away. We have become so politically correct and strangled by our own legal system that we can´t deal with KNOWN criminals and defective intelligence. Why people think that just adding more and more laws will fix that escapes me.

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R-TA-Wide_2
  


 
Reply 8 - Posted by: NYbob, 3/30/2018 1:51:29 PM     (No. 11588210)

Of all the things to fight for, this is definitely last on the list. The problem is we are wrestling with a Boa Constrictor and every regulation cinches the control up a notch for people who work hard at disarming law abiding citizens. NOT criminals, only fellow citizens who are exercising natural law and a fundamental right.

If you are going to wrestle with the pigs who always make sure they are protected by many state of the art firearms, demand that they give back a lot of ground they have taken on this issue. Why does every gun hating mouth never have to defend the racist Sullivan Laws of NYC or the absolute failure of gun bans in DC and Chicago? Why do they NEVER have to apologize for not prosecuting gun crime or for plea bargaining gun crimes? Why aren´t the Sheriffs and law enforcement people who not only failed to do their job, but who went out of their way to avoid doing their job, fired or on trial?

Bump stocks are worthless and banning them will do nothing except justify the ´lawmakers´ whims. Force them to address the root causes of much of the gun crimes in our urban areas. Until they are ready to admit at least some of their failures, give them nothing. They have to be made accountable. Put THEM on the defensive for once. Force the media to talk about the real issues for once.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: terry_tr6, 3/30/2018 1:54:34 PM     (No. 11588213)

if private ownership of fully auto guns manufactured since 1986 was allowed even under the same laws as pre-1986 guns, no one would buy a bump stock. Those that want a full auto gun would just buy a real one.
But that would drop the value of all those legal pre-1986 machine guns to their real market value, which is about the same as their semi-auto versions.
And don´t think the collectors that own machine guns want the value of their collections drop by 75%

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Reply 10 - Posted by: FunOne, 3/30/2018 3:00:39 PM     (No. 11588267)

In reference to the Las Vegas shooting--when do you think we will get a complete report on that event? Once we get some answers to some very questionable circumstances--then perhaps, we might CONSIDER a discussion on bump stocks.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: seamusm, 3/30/2018 3:13:54 PM     (No. 11588277)

Yes. A bump stock converts a semi-auto to full auto. Fully automatic guns of any variety should continue to be legal in only a limited fashion (licensing/permit).

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Reply 12 - Posted by: mc squared, 3/30/2018 3:43:31 PM     (No. 11588306)

I anyone didn´t read the text, here it is:
on ten separate occasions, between 2008 and 2017, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives issued letters concluding that bump stocks "did not qualify as machine guns" and were perfectly legal to manufacture, sell, and possess.

Banning items that even the ATF says are legal, will lead to more bans on ANY firearm that could fire rapidly.

How many times was one used in a mass shooting? Once.

A thousand times NO.





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.LockDme.


 
Reply 13 - Posted by: coldoc, 3/30/2018 3:54:59 PM     (No. 11588317)

All of my friends are ardent shooters. None of them have shot anybody. None of them would own a bump stock. That said, the people who want to ban bump stocks are not trustworthy. Their motives are always suspect. Most of them know so little about guns they cant even discuss the subject and make any sense. Count me a NO.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: Vaquero45, 3/30/2018 4:01:35 PM     (No. 11588321)

A "bump stock" most assuredly does NOT make a semi-auto rifle into a machine gun. You can accomplish the same thing using a technique where you put your thumb through a belt loop. Just because they´re stupid gadgets doesn´t mean they should - or CAN - be outlawed.

Change the title of the article to just plain "should we surrender?" The answer is the same - not only no, but Hell, no.
No more "compromises" - no more "common sense" legislation. It´s time to start taking back the ground we´ve lost to these bums.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: jl80863, 3/30/2018 4:03:47 PM     (No. 11588324)

Someone once told me "we don´t lie, the truth changes". Are we to accept legal definitions based on feelings and attitudes or objective descriptions? Anti-gun proponents use any and every means in attempts to achieve their objective. Changing the established basis for how things are legally defined opens a Pandora´s Box of problems.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: dvc, 3/30/2018 5:15:55 PM     (No. 11588398)

Words have meaning. Without sticking to actual meaning, we cannot have a discussion. Many throw around terms indescriminately, whether to intentionally confuse or from ignorance, I cannot tell.

The legal definition of "fully automatic" is "more than one shot per function of the trigger".

A gun with a bump stock DOES NOT fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger. By legal definition, the claim that a "bump stock creates a machine gun" is a falsehood. This is why the ATF has never regulated them. They are easily proven to be legal semi-automatics, in addition to being very unrealiable and difficult to get to work at all.

No matter how many times someone repeats a falsehood, the facts remain. It is a semi-automatic pulling the trigger very quickly, NOT a fully automatic.

We are talking about now defining "shooting too fast". Some can empty a 30 round magazine from a semi-auto in under 3 seconds while hitting their target. Is that a crime? Is THAT "a machine gun"? Is that somehow the "crime" of shooting too fast?

Will we be left only with single shot guns?

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Reply 17 - Posted by: Ribald1, 3/30/2018 8:04:53 PM     (No. 11588536)

With a lathe and mill you can make fully automatic rifles to your hearts content.
They going to come after those next?

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.R-LJ.
  


 
Reply 18 - Posted by: dvc, 3/30/2018 8:24:00 PM     (No. 11588556)

I have both a metal lathe and a mill, but the same way my guns have never violated any laws, my machine tools have not, and will not, either.

And, how many are aware that you can manufacture a gun for your own use with zero paperwork? 100& legal.

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