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When the Shooting Starts, Would You Go In?
Aspen Times, by Glenn Beaton

Original Article

Posted By:Big bopper, 3/18/2018 10:35:10 AM

Armed sheriff´s deputies appeared on the scene of the recent school massacre in Florida while kids were still being murdered inside. But the deputies failed to storm the building to apprehend the killer, to rescue the assaulted, to stop the bleeding and to comfort the dying. They failed to do their jobs. Instead, they cowered behind their patrol cars waiting for, well, apparently waiting for the shooting to stop. Some 150 bullets and 17 lives later, it finally did and the killer walked away. Only then did the deputies enter the building. About that, President Donald Trump characteristically said what he thought. He

Comments:
Interersting question to ask oneself.

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: Jacksin5, 3/18/2018 11:08:31 AM     (No. 11575595)

Human beings are wired, in times of danger, or stress, with what is known as the "Fight or Flight" response.

Many people have no idea how they would react until confronted which such a scenario.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: Jed, 3/18/2018 11:12:51 AM     (No. 11575599)

In a heartbeat, have ran into danger more than a few times

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.New_S.
  


 
Reply 3 - Posted by: volksford, 3/18/2018 11:16:22 AM     (No. 11575601)

Speaking from first hand experience if you are a everyday Joe or Jane you get your butt away from the fire. Then you try to make a "what can I do" decision, the answer is.. not a lot. Believe me, it is weeks and even months of questioning yourself. Real life ain´t the movies.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: bmoc, 3/18/2018 11:18:37 AM     (No. 11575603)

I´ve never been a law enforcement officer, but I was a paramedic for twelve years. I was called in under fire many times. I was shot twice, one was a ´flesh wound´ and one saw me in the hospital for three weeks. I saw firemen go into a burning building, an instinct totally foreign to the human brain. A LEO I knew and really admired was shot seven times when he responded to help us out one day.

Some people can and some people can´t. I pass judgment on neither side.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: Jntsrgn, 3/18/2018 11:20:40 AM     (No. 11575606)

We make a real mistake believing that all police or military are well trained and brave. Due to social engineering our police and military have become steady paychecks rather than a call to service.

We should pay police triple what they make now but make it a daunting contest to getvto be one. We would be better served with 1/3 the number of police but have them be honest warriors truly out to protect and serve.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: uno, 3/18/2018 11:26:58 AM     (No. 11575610)

"If you run inside to help, the most likely outcome is that you accomplish nothing."

Not if you are a trained professional like the police are supposed to be! You are there to put a stop to a situation. You do it cautiously, and carefully, but you do it! Maybe you take a shot at him and miss, but I guarantee you´ll get his attention and that may be all it takes to save a life or two or more! If you´re there to wait until the shooter runs out of bullets or kids to shoot, you´re not a Policeman. Yer just a janitor!

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Reply 7 - Posted by: Amereagle-redux, 3/18/2018 11:29:01 AM     (No. 11575613)

Having stood guard in a local school, unarmed, in a gun free state while a mad gunman was loose in the neighborhood a few years ago, seething that the local politicians make it so difficult to carry a sidearm (he had already killed two people at the mall and was on the loose nearby) and wishing I had my rifle, or even a bow and arrow, I am 100% certain I would rush in if kids were being killed.

100% certain.

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R-TA-Wide_2
  


 
Reply 8 - Posted by: Twinkle93, 3/18/2018 11:35:42 AM     (No. 11575618)

How many training exercises did this sherriff´s department conducted for school shootings ( or similar locations) have and how many of the responding officers had participated?

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Reply 9 - Posted by: earlybird, 3/18/2018 11:36:15 AM     (No. 11575619)

The hypothetical in the article doesn’t fit the situation. Beaton writes about an unarmed person. What would they do.

The Broward County sheriffs who stood around outside (including the one who was the designated school security officer) did nothing. It was their JOB to go in.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: Nevadadad46, 3/18/2018 11:51:17 AM     (No. 11575633)

Oh, boy,! Would I have gone in? Without a moment´s hesitation. And, yes! I have been tested on that and with real bullets and lots of them. I have friends (now most of them retired) who were police officers. I know as a natural fact not a one of them would have hesitated to go in. Want to see real police in action? Watch the video of the Dallas police getting shot to death by the Black Lives matter radical murderers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpb-mtjN9q8

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Reply 11 - Posted by: LC Chihuahua, 3/18/2018 12:01:10 PM     (No. 11575642)

Depends on the situation. Also depends if we are talking an individual response versus the response from a trained police department. The police aren´t going to rush in blindly. That is not how they are trained. What happened in Florida will happen again. Doesn´t matter if you ban guns, put an armed guard in every school, arm the teachers, or lockup every individual that displays anti-social behavior.

Most of the talk about new legislation is just that, talk. Much of it is pandering. Very little will change.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: Bazi, 3/18/2018 12:06:47 PM     (No. 11575648)

Couldn´t schools have security cameras at the entry ways and in the hallways that stream live to monitors in the school office and in the local police station?

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.LockDme.


 
Reply 13 - Posted by: Hazymac, 3/18/2018 12:30:43 PM     (No. 11575660)

Yes. Trading my older life for one or more innocent young lives would fine with me. Chances of success, unarmed, would likely be remote if you are the only counterattacker. If a few others can be marshaled to rush the shooter simultaneously, preferably from more than one direction, one or more defenders might die, but the shooter will be overwhelmed by the rest.

There are over 1,700,000 concealed weapon permit holders in Florida. Most of them are well above average in shooting ability, and all have been thoroughly vetted and adjudged to be law abiding and sane; however, unless they are, essentially, police, they can´t have weapons in schools. Permit holding teachers, administrators, janitors, and anyone else whose primary work is on that particular school campus ought to be able to carry a weapon if they want to, and have had sufficient training (which should be paid for in the school budget).

No school anywhere should be a posted "gun free zone"; in fact, schools with no security at all should have something like this posted outside: WARNING: Armed security on premises during school hours.

It´s the same principle as people who post security warnings on their windows or on signs on the lawn, even when they have no security at all. How would a common burglar know that? Maybe a common school shooter would be deterred by a false warning of armed security outside a target school.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: Moonspinner, 3/18/2018 12:33:09 PM     (No. 11575663)

If I was trained, armed and it was my job to protect victims, then yeah I would have gone in. It is the deputies´ job to go in and try to stop the bad guy and save the victims isn´t it? What is the purpose of deputies? Write speeding tickets?

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Reply 15 - Posted by: franq, 3/18/2018 12:47:05 PM     (No. 11575678)

Unarmed? Doubtful. Carrying my Glock .40 with 15 rounds? Probably. I´ve lived my life. Know Jesus. Most of these nut case shooters would crumble under even the smallest pushback, I believe.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: Yorkiemom, 3/18/2018 1:05:41 PM     (No. 11575698)

Good question. What would I do can be asked about A lot of f things s. The answers come easier wwhen hen were Answering from our comfy couc

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Reply 17 - Posted by: dirtyjersey, 3/18/2018 1:28:42 PM     (No. 11575714)

By the theory given - - that you don´t know until it happens - - we should apply the answer to their future pensions.

Remember, modern cops have bulletproof vests, training and weapons. They are not going to simply barge in and confront a shooter.

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.R-LJ.
  


 
Reply 18 - Posted by: Ribicon, 3/18/2018 1:30:44 PM     (No. 11575716)

"When the building´s on fire with children inside, would you go in?" Ask any fireman. The police and the sheriff´s officers, and their leaders, should hang their heads in shame.

A better question: "If you´re already inside and the shooting starts, and you´re carrying, would you defend yourself and others?" Absolutely, because the fight or flight response is engaged. Happens time and again when ordinary citizens defend themselves and others, but the leftist press prefers to reframe the question to imply that armed citizens are ineffective.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: Lte126, 3/18/2018 1:53:23 PM     (No. 11575744)

To a earlier post, as far as FD, you go in BECAUSE there may be someone in there. Even a vagrant in a abandoned building. Even our job is becoming pussified because they don’t want guys going inside abandoned building. They’re afraid someone may get hurt and then they would be criticized.

So yes. You go in. No matter what.

but all the training in the world can’t make a man out of a mouse.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: Maggie2u, 3/18/2018 2:01:47 PM     (No. 11575749)

I ask myself the question. Would I go in? Definitely if one of my grandchildren were in the building. So why not if it´s someone else´s grandchild? Is their life not as important to them as mine is to me? I hope I would have the courage to do it, even if unarmed.
Off topic, but one of the bravest things I have ever seen was during the takeover of the Breslan school in Russia in 2004. When the terrorists started blowing the school up and children were rushing from the building, the terrorists were shooting at them and police officers and soldiers ran out and threw themselves on top of the children to protect them. I have never forgotten that.

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Reply 21 - Posted by: justavoter, 3/18/2018 2:27:16 PM     (No. 11575775)

I have never been put into an "under fire" situation but I believe if I were a police office with the training they receive, I would no doubt go in. I only base that on what I know from the farm. I had a guy that wanted to ride my horse one day and he disregarded my instructions and just let the horse take off. As he came around the barn and have no control of the horse, he was headed toward a bunch of kids and I jumped in front of the horse, got control and stopped him. Someone asked how I had the courage to do that? I don´t know, all I knew was the horse had to be stopped before something really bad happened so I just did what I could.

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Reply 22 - Posted by: dvc, 3/18/2018 2:46:49 PM     (No. 11575793)

Yes. I lost a much beloved relative in overseas firefight a few years ago. I thought about his sacrifice, and I thought how should I honor him?
I carry a gun every day, have competed for over 30 years with a handgun, and have decided that I would make every effort to stop a violent madman from harming helpless people. I have the skills, I am armed and I think I have the will. Won´t be certain unless it happens. Hope to avoid it, but will not stand by or run away like the Broward Cowards.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: IdahoSky, 3/18/2018 2:58:23 PM     (No. 11575798)

No question. Children were dying.
What else could anyone with a shred of decency do?

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Reply 24 - Posted by: Ribald1, 3/18/2018 3:13:10 PM     (No. 11575809)

Is this part of the psychology behind the average liberals desire that people be unarmed? I do realize that only about a third of them want us disarmed in order to be able to rid themselves of us.
When TSHTF do they fear the coward´s thousand deaths if others, armed, take charge and resolve the problem?
Is this an attempt to avoid feeling ineffectual and weak?

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Reply 25 - Posted by: NYbob, 3/18/2018 3:21:58 PM     (No. 11575816)

This is a stupid question. Glenn sets up the extreme argument to excuse cowardly and stupid behavior of Broward county law enforcement. That preening punk sheriff should have spent more time training his officers and planning for emergency situations instead of picking out more stars for his fake military uniform.

What was Patterson doing before the shooting started? Wasn´t he on the lookout for a threat inside and outside the school? Cruz was a surprise to him? What a pathetic ´guard.´ He was armed, he was paid to provide security and be a guard. He didn´t do any part of his job. Pension? He ought to be prosecuted for manslaughter.

Every shooter I know would have gone into the building. Maybe they only fire to distract Cruz, maybe they engage and pick him off, maybe they get shot by Cruz or LEOs when the police finally do their job, but for most the issue would be do they remember to count or are they found with an empty pistol.

Has Glenn Beaton ever owned or carried a firearm? Being prepared to correctly engage a target and to have some kind of control over your actions and reflexes is what motivates shooters I know. They want to be safe and effective with their weapon. Yes, life isn´t a movie, but the mindset of a practiced firearms owner isn´t a discussion over coffee either. Deadly force is a serious responsibility. You either accept that or you should not be anywhere near it. Especially if you are being armed and paid to protect children.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: Bighambone, 3/18/2018 3:44:36 PM     (No. 11575830)

There is a difference between a sworn law enforcement officer and just plain Joe from Kokomo. A sworn law enforcement officer has a “duty” to go in, while just plain Joe does not have that duty.

In that respect the people of Broward County, Florida had the right to expect that all the sworn law enforcement officers in their Sheriff’s Department would do their duty even at the risk of their lives.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: uno, 3/18/2018 5:09:02 PM     (No. 11575884)

And I´ll bet you most plain Joe´s from Kokomo or Idaho would do their utmost to save kids from being slaughtered!

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Reply 28 - Posted by: lakerman1, 3/18/2018 7:28:17 PM     (No. 11575983)

Why was Poltroon Deputy Peterson not inside the school before the shooting started?? Wasn´t that his assignment?

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Reply 29 - Posted by: Sunhan65, 3/19/2018 2:28:04 AM     (No. 11576183)

Most of my long-time favorite L-Dotters have already weighed in (#´s 5, 7, 9, 10, 20, 22 and--of course--13) along with some more recent favorites like #23. I believe all of you.

However, I also understand #´s 1,3, and 4. When I made the decision to arm myself, I took it seriously and trained diligently. After months of practice, I felt competent enough to enter a local competition. During the slow fire exercise, I emptied my pistol in the first 10 seconds and had to stand there like a fool for minutes while the others completed their shots.

I thought I was trained; I thought I was ready. However, the stress of competition was enough to overwhelm all of my practicing. So I honestly don´t know what I would do under actual combat conditions.

I can only hope I would have the courage to kill or die to protect a child.

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Daily Mail (UK), by David Martosko    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 7/15/2018 9:29:27 PM     Post Reply
Judge Brett Kavanaugh is going into the Supreme Court confirmation process with a hail of rhetorical arrows zinging by him, including a phony letter-writing campaign aimed at unsuspecting American newspaper editors. At least 21 papers were duped last week, including big-market brands like the Dallas Morning News and The Washington Times. They ran identical letters over a four-day period, each signed by a different person. The effort is an example of public-relations ´astroturfing,´ a technique meant to simulate genuine grassroots support for an idea or cause. The form letter is one small piece of the message minefield erupting around Kavanaugh

Queen Bey´s biggest fan? Excited
Michelle Obama lets loose
at Beyonce and Jay-Z´s Paris
concert with the former First
Lady dancing up a storm next
to Tina Knowles

29 replie(s)
Daily Mail, by Emily Crane    Original Article
Posted By: earlybird- 7/15/2018 11:46:13 PM     Post Reply
Michelle Obama has been spotted letting loose at Beyonce and Jay-Z´s concert in Paris with the former First Lady dancing up a storm. Mrs Obama and her 17-year-old daughter Sasha were among the famous faces in the crowd as they watched the power couple take to the stage for their On the Run II tour on Sunday night. Michelle and Sasha were snapped in the stands at the Stade de France by several excited fans before Beyonce and Jay-Z took to the stage. But when the duo´s concert kicked off, Sasha was no where to be seen and Michelle was spotted mingling with

Peter Strzok’s arrogance is
the product of a corrupt FBI

28 replie(s)
New York Post, by Michael Goodwin    Original Article
Posted By: Pluperfect- 7/15/2018 5:04:59 AM     Post Reply
Watching FBI agent Peter Strzok battle with Congress, my initial reaction was pure anger. His repeated, arrogant insistence that he had done nothing wrong despite tons of evidence to the contrary convinced me he deserved immediate firing — if not the firing squad. Gradually, though, anger gave way to amazement as Strzok grew increasingly combative and condescending. Given his predicament, the sneering and smirking were stupid, and yet he persisted. Who is this jerk, I wondered, and how in the hell did he get to be a big shot at the FBI? And why are taxpayers still paying for the privilege of

Drug traffickers ´BEHEADED a special
needs girl, 13, in Alabama because she
saw them stab her grandma to death over
her links to El Chapo´s Sinaloa Cartel´

25 replie(s)
Daily Mail [UK] and Associated Press, by Keith Griffith and Staff    Original Article
Posted By: Ribicon- 7/14/2018 11:11:14 PM     Post Reply
A 13-year-old girl in Alabama was beheaded because she saw her Sinaloa Cartel-associated granny stabbed to death by drug traffickers, authorities have said. Mariah Lopez, 13, and her grandmother Oralia Mendoza, 49, were killed on June 4 in Moon Cemetery outside of Huntsville, Alabama, prosecutors revealed in court on Thursday. The new details in the case came in a hearing for 26-year-old Yoni Aguilar, who along with 34-year-old Israel Palomino is charged with two counts each of capital murder in the slayings. At the hearing, investigators testified that the grandmother Mendoza had ties to the Sinaloa Cartel,

Just Sitting Down With Trump,
Putin Comes Out Ahead

23 replie(s)
New York Times, by Andrew Higgins, Neil MacFarquhar    Original Article
Posted By: delta dave- 7/15/2018 2:03:57 PM     Post Reply
Moscow - When President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia sits down with President Trump in Helsinki, Finland, on Monday for a meeting he has long wanted, he will already have accomplished virtually everything he could reasonably hope for. All he really needs to make his meeting with Mr. Trump a success is for it to take place without any major friction — providing a symbolic end to Western efforts to isolate Russia over its actions against Ukraine in 2014, its meddling in the United States election in 2016 and other examples of what the United States Treasury Department has described as Russia’s “malign activity” around the

´Organized Cruelty’: Clinton Blasts Trump
Administration for ´Trying to Rip the
Heart Out of America´

23 replie(s)
Fox News, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 7/15/2018 3:16:18 PM     Post Reply
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton ripped the Trump administration on Friday during a teachers union conference in Pittsburgh. Speaking to thousands at the American Federation of Teachers Convention, Clinton expressed her disdain over multiple Trump policies. The ongoing issue of migrant family separations at the border goes beyond politics, she said, adding that it was disgraceful, inhumane and indecent. President Trump signed an executive order in June to allow migrant children to stay with parents who were caught crossing the border illegally. Clinton went on to say that the administration wants to transform the

Family ties! Obama arrives in his father´s
native Kenya for low-key trip to launch
sports center founded by his half-sister

23 replie(s)
Daily Mail [UK] and Associated Press, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: Ribicon- 7/15/2018 11:49:06 PM     Post Reply
Former US president Barack Obama arrived in Kenya on Sunday, the country of his father´s birth, his first visit to this East African country since leaving office. Obama is in Kenya to help launch the sports and training center founded by his half-sister, Auma Obama, through her foundation Sauti Kuu. In Nairobi, Barack met President Uhuru Kenyatta at the official residence, according to Kenyatta´s Twitter account. (Snip) Barack´s visit to Kenya is low key, unlike his previous visits where he electrified thousands of Kenyans who lined the streets to see him when he was a senator in 2006 and then as president


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