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The Case for the Baker in the
Gay-Wedding Culture War

New York Magazine, by Andrew Sullivan

Original Article

Posted By:MissMolly, 12/9/2017 5:04:13 AM

If someone had asked me back in the day, if, in 2017, we’d be having a discussion about whether a fundamentalist baker should be forced by the law to create a wedding cake for a gay couple, I’d have been gobsmacked, as the Brits say. Smacked in the gob because only a decade ago such a question would have seemed so remotely hypothetical as to be absurd. And yet, here we are. A Christian baker has taken a stand on the grounds of religious conscience and artistic freedom not to provide a cake specifically designed for a legal, constitutional same-sex

Comments:
Occasionally Andrew Sullivan reminds me how lucid and persuasive he used to be as a writer.

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: M2, 12/9/2017 7:17:22 AM     (No. 11475339)

Two interesting points: One, a ruling in Jack Phillips´s favor would be a narrow one; for his case only because of bias on the part of the previous decisions, not a win for religious liberty as such.

Two, Sullivan keeps referring to Phillips as a "fundamentalist", a pejorative in Sullivan´s eyes and meant to convey a closed-mindedness that does not exist. Any Christian who is committed to Biblical Christianity is, de facto, a "fundamentalist". That does not mean he is hateful, biased, closed-minded. Phillips has already said he´d make any cake or other item for gay people, just not one celebrating something the Bible prohibits.

For a Christian to be a "fundamentalist" means only and rightly that he or she is faithful to Scripture which is the Word of God. There is nothing wrong with Christian fundamentalism in the 21st century.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: greatGreyhounds, 12/9/2017 7:45:46 AM     (No. 11475357)

So would Andrew complain about a Muslim Bakery being forced to make Maple Bacon Donuts for Canada Day?

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Reply 3 - Posted by: MoBeef4u, 12/9/2017 8:00:28 AM     (No. 11475367)

I was surprised by the depth of thought Andrew showed in presenting both sides of this issue. That is until the end where he as much as said Christians would be more Christian if they supported gay marriage. That is ridiculous for a host of reasons both religious and biological.

I did appreciate his realization of how the gay movement has morphed from live and let live to my way or the highway. I wonder how many on his side of the divide agree with him.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: ByteGuru, 12/9/2017 8:21:40 AM     (No. 11475390)


To me there are two points that the article touched on that are worth noting:

- live and let live: if the gay couple have many bakers from whom they can choose, there should be no requirement that the baker they choose be made to accept their business.

- do some rights supercede other rights: a wise man once told his children "you have the right to swing your arms around all you want but that right stops at the end of another persons nose."


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Reply 5 - Posted by: jackburton, 12/9/2017 8:50:38 AM     (No. 11475414)

From the article: It always worries me when gays advocate taking freedom away from other people. It worries me as a matter of principle. But it also unsettles me because some gay activists do not seem to realize that the position they’re taking is particularly dangerous for a tiny and historically despised minority. The blithe unconcern for the First Amendment in the war on “hate speech,” for example, ignores the fact that, for centuries, the First Amendment was the only defense the gay minority ever had — and now, with the first taste of power, we are restricting the rights of others in this respect? Ugh.

With that said, he misses an essential point. No, Christians aren´t supposed to cut themselves off from the world and just disassociate themselves from sinners... but is that what happens here? The baker would plainly offer them SOME services. Christians have a duty to tell people when they´ve crossed the line. And I´m sure Andy would support criticizing, say, sexual harassers. So why is a sexual immorality of this sort any different.

Don´t bake the cake.


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Reply 6 - Posted by: NorthernDog, 12/9/2017 9:07:06 AM     (No. 11475422)

C-Span was broadcasting an audio recording of the Supreme Court proceedings on this case. It was pretty interesting - but I got the impression few justices sided with the baker.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: lostinmassachusetts, 12/9/2017 10:33:22 AM     (No. 11475489)

During the time of the apostles, if the Roman state had mandated eating foods sacrificed to idols, some believers would have refused and faced the consequences. Law or not,we Christians have to follow the Spirit,not the secular

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Reply 8 - Posted by: lostinmassachusetts, 12/9/2017 10:43:57 AM     (No. 11475503)

authorities.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: Lucky5, 12/9/2017 10:52:56 AM     (No. 11475515)

He calls us group thinkers who voted for a pig further down the article. So same old guy.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: southernboy, 12/9/2017 10:58:11 AM     (No. 11475520)

It wasn´t the cake...It was the decoration they wanted on top of the cake...a depiction of an act
considered gross and pornographic and "forbidden by the Bible."

We can figure out pretty much what that was.

Pornography should not be forced upon anyone.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: Smart11344, 12/9/2017 12:02:59 PM     (No. 11475593)

We all know gays blow out more than candles at their parties, spreading infections.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: saguni, 12/9/2017 1:27:55 PM     (No. 11475712)

From John Corvino in the linked article: "That´s certainly true of wearing hijabs and religion, or celebrating mass and religion; likewise of same-sex weddings and sexual orientation."

Sorry, NO. One can be in a same-sex couple--even for decades--living together and never want to "marry" just as one can be in a heterosexual couple, living together--even for decades--and never want to marry.

Jack Phillips offered them any item in his inventory, but only declined to provide a custom designed personalized artistic decorated cake. He based his decision not on who they were but on what action the cake celebrated.

It is very true that gay activists jumped immediately from "live and let live" all we want is tolerance straight to "we will destroy you, your reputation and your livelihood" if you don´t treat us as better than your beliefs.

Forcing the baker to fulfill these activist demands will violate the baker´s First Amendment rights, and possibly the Fifteenth Amendment, as being forced against his will to provide work he won´t do otherwise is nothing short of slavery.

It is beginning to look like the only defense to the Nazi gay activists is to ask when they want the cake (photos or "service") then "look at your appointment calendar" and say, "Sorry, I´m already booked solid that week."

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