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How to Reduce Shootings
New York Times, by Nicholas Kristof

Original Article

Posted By:bemused conservative, 11/7/2017 6:12:08 PM

It has happened yet again: Inevitably, predictably, fatefully, a gunman shot dead 26 people in a Texas church on Sunday. These incidents are peculiarly American tragedies, and what’s particularly heartbreaking is that they aren’t shocking. People all over the world become furious and try to harm others, but only in the United States do we suffer such mass shootings so regularly; only in the U.S. do we lose one person every 15 minutes to gun violence. Two of the deadliest mass shootings in modern American history have occurred in the last six weeks. So let’s not just mourn the dead, let’s

Comments:
Read the article. By focusing on improving firearm safety and operator training, I really believe it´s possible to reduce the current 30,000 plus firearm deaths by one third across the board within five years. That´s ten thousand lives saved. A firearm is a tool, just like a motor vehicle, and we can and should make them safer. Operators should have the same weapons training LEO´s do. I´m not talking about mass shootings, those are impossible to prevent. Suicides, accidents, everyday homicides--those can be pushed much lower by a motor vehicle approach.

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: WestCoast, 11/7/2017 6:25:51 PM     (No. 11444907)

OP- I don´t see how better training could possibly prevent any suicides or murders. Accidental shootings maybe but I had many hours of training as a Marine and LEO and there were still accidental discharges among my peers and I still shudder to think about a fellow marine screwing around with a loaded .45 that would ended me instantly had things gone a little (very little) differently.
I don´t have a problem with background checks but do have a problem with who established the criteria for denial of ownership rights. PTSD, maybe, probably not. Anti anxiety meds for a period of time, not likely. Any number of things could cause a gun grabber in a position of authority to decide a person was unable to safely own a firearm. I heard an idiot on the radio yesterday who stated that no one should be able to own a semi auto pistol or rifle, said anything else was military type weapon and should not be privately owned. He obviously didn´t have a clue about the intent of the 2nd Amendment.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: trackman999, 11/7/2017 6:29:05 PM     (No. 11444917)

I noticed that according to his charts that New Jersey is an open carry state for hand guns and long guns. It is not. The law in New Jersey when going to and from a gun range a gun must locked in a box, the box in your trunk and the gun cannot be loaded. Open carry? Not in NJ. What else is factually wrong with his story?

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Reply 3 - Posted by: shamrock, 11/7/2017 6:30:20 PM     (No. 11444919)

Make them safer,OP? They already have two safeties, heavier trigger pulls, etc. The crazy in Texas had all kinds of training, thanks to Uncle Sam. You can´t regulate crazy. My firearms are safe because I control them. And most of the firearms deaths are suicides. The rest are druggies in Chicago. You won´t guilt me into giving up my firearms, I´ve done nothing wrong and neither have all my shooting friends. Try another angle, this one has gotten stale.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: lawdoc, 11/7/2017 6:39:53 PM     (No. 11444930)

Why would most of us need training as a law enforcement officer. I don´t do law enforcement. The only training i need to to safely handle my firearm, which most of us owners have. I am trained as a surgeon. Law enforcement officers should be trained as law enforcement officers. How such nonsense passes as common sense logic escapes me.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: kono, 11/7/2017 6:39:57 PM     (No. 11444931)

"Predictably"? Somebody predicted that 26 people would be gunned down in church? Kristof doesn´t even wait two sentences before going off-the-rails hysterical in this piece.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: fobo, 11/7/2017 6:40:20 PM     (No. 11444933)

So many things to disagree with. Let´s start with the second sentence. Really? The latest shooting isn´t shocking? You are one cold human.

The majority of gun deaths are suicides. Not to give anybody ideas, but there are other ways to do this. So is the concern the death of a fellow human or the tool through which this is accomplished? There´s a slippery slope for you.

Murders are, by definition, crimes committed by criminals. Criminals flaunt law. Will they suddenly obey gun laws?

I don´t want guns in the hands of lunatics, but I don´t want to see someone who suffers a brief depression forever stigmatized and I really don´t want to see someone who shows up on a "watch list" who is not convicted of a crime penalized.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: Dodge Boy, 11/7/2017 6:42:02 PM     (No. 11444938)

Nice try, Kristof. But, people don´t get into a car for the purpose of using it as a weapon. Understand that if a car driver may kill, it is more random due to inattention, carelessness, or a dumb mistake.

"How to Reduce Shootings"?

Find out how and why already unstable Americans are further being influenced to kill. As suggested the other day - could it be due to the chronic over-exposure to media political negativity and hate that is spewed each and every day in the msm and internet? Is it due to increasing personal pressures to get buy in this world and then envy becomes the emotional wedge that changes people?


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Reply 8 - Posted by: thomthomp, 11/7/2017 6:42:37 PM     (No. 11444940)

The author uses the twisted logic and misleading statistics you would expect in the New York times. For example he tries to refute the argument for the defensive use of firearms by claiming only 259 justifiable homicides in a year, conveniently ignoring the estimated 800,000 to 2 MILLION other defensive uses of firearms.

And auto regulation is NOT a model for gun regulation for the very simple reason that there is no right to have a car in the Constitution. Liberals love to overlook the Constitution when coming up with their cockamamie schemes.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: rubberneck, 11/7/2017 6:43:25 PM     (No. 11444942)

It has happened yet again: Inevitably, predictably, fatefully, a gunman shot dead 26 people... blah, blah, blah...

Predictably? Is he serious? The PROBLEM is that these incidents are so totally unpredictable!

Also, this is a case study in using "statistics" to sell a bill of goods.

Consider that he starts with "gun MURDERS per 100,000 people" to show how bad we are as a country. But then, conveniently, when he´s "grading" the states to show how effective strict gun laws are, he conveniently switches to DEATH rates, rather than MURDER rates.

California, New York and Illinois all get an "A" or a "B"... are far safer than Utah or Idaho or Montana, huh? Yeah, sure.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: BarryNo, 11/7/2017 6:45:35 PM     (No. 11444947)

Keep guns out of the hands of liberals. You´ll stop 90 percent of the shootings right there.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: Mackrand, 11/7/2017 6:55:11 PM     (No. 11444959)

The New York Times. Not sure what the OP´s point is. This actually sounds like yet another plan to make it as difficult as possible for law abiding gun owners. So difficult that it is effectively impossible to own firearms. Like in several US States and Cities.

OP I suspect ignores the out of control situation in parts of Chicago where gun laws are almost totally ignored.

Ignored like the Air Force shining on the requirement to report to the FED the BCD of the Texas Shooter. Ignored like the liberal Socialist Democrats ignore the fact the FED ignores and refuses to enforce laws already on the books.

Ignores like the ATF and the Justice Department ignored their laws and made it possible for many hundreds of illegal gun sales that found their way into unlawful shooting incidents along our Southern Border.

I could go on ad infinitum but you get the point.



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Reply 12 - Posted by: gop_guys, 11/7/2017 6:55:57 PM     (No. 11444961)

Remember when law enforcement talk gun safety in the public schools? That day is long gone as is prayer in schools. Come to think of it, that´s when we started having all these problems. We used to get in trouble shooting spit balls in straws at school. Now kids bring guns and knives. The problems America is having are Spiritual and of our own making.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: chumley, 11/7/2017 7:17:22 PM     (No. 11444983)

No matter what scheme is enacted, it will be administered by the government. Do you trust them? I don´t. Each and every incremental restriction is a step toward their stated goal of outlawing all guns for everyone.
Not one inch.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: Davids918, 11/7/2017 7:51:26 PM     (No. 11445011)

FTA: "The Second Amendment is one constraint"

U.S. Constitution: "no law SHALL infringe" on the right´s to bear arms.

SHALL is not MAY, or COULD, or MIGHT.

The current laws on the books would have prevented this person from purchasing a gun IF the Air Force had done what it was supposed to do by reporting his actions.



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Reply 15 - Posted by: Rumblehog, 11/7/2017 8:12:07 PM     (No. 11445032)

Allow me to postulate something here...

The Obama Administration did NOT allow normal background screenings to be performed in order to increase the numbers of gun crimes that would ensue. Such subterfuge would play into the anti-gun lobby, not the NRA.

Investigate and if this was a plan it´s time for Congress to Impeach former pResident Obama.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: littleorby, 11/7/2017 9:19:15 PM     (No. 11445096)

I have many thoughts on gun control, but I cannot condense them enough to be suitable for this forum. But one thing is patently clear. The government CANNOT protect your family from gun violence . . . it is up to families to protect families from gun violence: Devin Kelley’s family knew of his violent nature. They KNEW he should not be allowed to have guns, and they knew he had guns, but did NOTHING. In my mind his family is as guilty as the shooter himself. They should have taken steps to protect the families of others.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: arcady, 11/7/2017 9:34:05 PM     (No. 11445106)

It´s become a tautology, Kristof´s always wrong.

This article demonstrates yet again that wisdom.

It´s amazing, Kristof is the definition of cumberance. And you can´t have an encumbrance, without a Kristof.

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R-LJ
  


 
Reply 18 - Posted by: arcady, 11/7/2017 9:35:35 PM     (No. 11445108)

Apologies, hit submit without spell checking.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: Grampstosix, 11/7/2017 9:57:15 PM     (No. 11445119)

The shooting in Texas would never have happened if a Navy clerk had entered the shooters name into the FBI data base and identified him as being separated from the service with a bad conduct discharge for domestic violence.The FBI then would have been able to prevent him from purchasing the rifle when it received a clearance request from the gun dealer. This case is not about poor gun control. It´s about someone failing to do their job.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: radrelic, 11/7/2017 10:13:02 PM     (No. 11445129)

Ban violence?

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Reply 21 - Posted by: dvc, 11/7/2017 10:53:44 PM     (No. 11445156)

Not a chance that I would click on a twofer like this - NYT and Kristof. LOL!

Leftist idiot writing in a propaganda rag that is 110% antigun. Yeah, right, lots to learn there.

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Reply 22 - Posted by: ConradCA, 11/7/2017 11:10:38 PM     (No. 11445163)

Make the penalty for abusing the right to keep and bear arms so sever that criminals will choose not to use them.

Possesing a firearm during during the commission of a crime or when it´s illegal should be 30 years in a federal prison.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: watashiyo, 11/8/2017 2:24:55 AM     (No. 11445232)

Amputate All Index Fingers.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: strike3, 11/8/2017 4:30:50 AM     (No. 11445247)

A guy writing about gun ownership in a city where private gun carry is banned is like a basket maker in Kenya writing about sports cars. I have walked around the less pleasant parts of New York City at night and never have I felt a stronger need to be carrying something semi-automatic and powerful. Spare us the liberal propaganda and write about something of which you know, Kristof. It ISN´T firearms.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: jimjr, 11/8/2017 10:48:21 AM     (No. 11445586)

The Air Force JAG let those people down. They didn´t report his conviction to the FBI, as required. That would have prevented him for obtaining firearms from a legal source.

I believe that it was Dereliction of Duty on their part and they should be held accountable.

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The Hill, by Brett Samuels    Original Article
Posted By: zoidberg- 1/11/2018 9:14:15 AM     Post Reply
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Wednesday that while he supports additional barriers at the U.S.-Mexico border, he believes some of the estimated costs for President Trump’s border wall are too high to justify. "I remain a fiscal conservative, even on the wall, so I’m not excited about spending $20, $30, $40 billion on a wall. I’m still a believer that we don’t have money to spend. We’re $700 billion in the hole,” Paul said on CNN.  “And while I will vote for money for barriers, I’m not voting for $40 billion for barriers,” Paul added.  A report last week detailed Trump’s


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