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A Deeper Lesson From
the United Airlines´ Fiasco

Real Clear Politics, by Charles Lipson

Original Article

Posted By:garnet, 4/15/2017 11:58:54 AM

The sight of a United Airlines’ passenger being dragged down the aisle offers a lesson beyond customer service and public relations. The lesson is simple but profound. Societies, like airlines, are far better off relying on incentives and voluntary transactions than on diktat and coercion. Most comments have understandably focused on the airline’s disturbing use of force, followed by the clueless CEO blaming the passenger before throwing in the towel and apologizing. Since this is America, the passenger has already lawyered up, so United’s headache will linger. Beyond these unforced errors lies a deeper lesson, one that applies not only to customer


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: tusker, 4/15/2017 12:23:30 PM     (No. 11222733)

What´s really disturbing is the total media silence relative to the fact that this so-called "doctor" is a pill pushing felon who trades homosexual favors for drugs and is no stranger to the "legal system" and further, typical to the genus, has "anger issues" and has failed his anger management classes and subsequently proved same on this aircraft.

Yet another freak/felon who should have been put away a long time ago.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: anotherctyankee, 4/15/2017 12:30:42 PM     (No. 11222742)

Reading articles from this site is so irritating. It reminds me of many years ago a VP at the bank where I was working complained that the garbage collectors in NYC made as much as he did and they were on strike to get more. I told him not to be jealous, just go get one of those better paying jobs. lol

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Reply 3 - Posted by: pensom2, 4/15/2017 12:39:34 PM     (No. 11222755)

Intriguing how some posters completely miss the point of an article.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: synchronicity, 4/15/2017 12:53:25 PM     (No. 11222770)

From my perspective there are a couple of points to bear in mind regardless of the personalities involved:

1. The selection was said to be random so no one is immune to being selected for ejection.

2. The personal circumstances of the person selected didn´t matter whether one is trying to see a loved one before they die or are going for life saving medical treatment, etc. - no immunity from the selection.

3. The airline considered saving money, not paying what it took to get enough people on that flight to willing depart, as more important than #2 and any consequences of their actions.

Having said the above, whether a criminal is accidentally chosen or you on the way to your child´s death bed or critical surgery, I can´t stomach the thought that in the end we are all just cattle to be dispatched with no feedback or recourse at the whim of a entity we chose to interact with under the assumption of a minimum of good will and a semblance of humanity. I know, silly me.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: SouthTxRat, 4/15/2017 12:54:44 PM     (No. 11222773)

You will always catch more flies with Honey,

And that CEO has got to go,

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Reply 6 - Posted by: bpl40, 4/15/2017 1:09:12 PM     (No. 11222792)

To me a far deeper issue is the attitude of the security personnel. I our system law enforcement is strictly limited and circumscribed on how and how much coercive physical force to use against citizens. Here a non violent person suffered a broken nose and loss of two front teeth. What is disturbing is how easily law enforcement personnel use their authority when there is no fear (or they think there is no fear) of legal consequences. This is also akin to what blacks experienced in the Jim Crow era.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: Mackrand, 4/15/2017 1:21:52 PM     (No. 11222802)

Well said, #4.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: Rumblehog, 4/15/2017 1:36:57 PM     (No. 11222814)

These "navel gazers" have NO idea what it´s like to run an airline. None. I´ve been around and worked with them, and flown on more than most anyone on Mrs. Lucianne´s Forum, and it´s never as simple as, "Just give him $20k and he´d leave!" Rrright, do you own a business?? Would you give any employee that much latitude to give away your money??

Republic Airlines operates under United´s colors. They also fly a half-dozen other airline colors, each with their own policies and procedures.

Airline management isn´t sitting around, twiddling their thumbs waiting to handle a belligerent law-breaking passenger. That´s why they must pay for airport security. Airlines have aircraft broken around the country with customers/crews stranded, waiting for a hard to get part to be flown in AOG on another airline´s jet to fix the problem, etc., etc. Airlines (&Air Freight) are the most logistically challenging business in the world - even more than our military. One unruly passenger can set in motion a chain of events resulting in delays/cancellations/lost revenue. Just one cancelled flight can cost more than a top-shelf luxury sedan with domino effect. Multiply it by 3, 6, 10, and you get the picture.

Government workers, those who haven´t flown since the advent of jet engines, etc. are quick to blame the “evil” airline. However, the easiest thing was for the passenger to stand and walk out the door, as lawfully ordered. The bleeting "Dao-ists" align themselves with "Act Up" scum, "Eco-Terror" jihadis, and Soros´ paid thugs.

Unlawful behavior cannot be tolerated in a civil society operating under the rule of law. (Conservatism 101)

´Nuff said on this topic. I´m sick of arguing with those who know nothing of business, airlines, aviation regulations, or even basic law.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: judy, 4/15/2017 1:38:04 PM     (No. 11222815)

The non media spent more time on this than N Korea & Syria combined. Oh sure break the rules, get a slimy lawyer & the democrat media loves you!

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Reply 10 - Posted by: msjena, 4/15/2017 2:13:44 PM     (No. 11222839)

Give it up, airline defenders! When the police pull someone off of a plane, it´s called a police state tactic. Thankfully, United has seen the error of its ways.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: shamus, 4/15/2017 2:54:51 PM     (No. 11222866)

Airlines have the law on their side. You have to be kind of crazy to disobey their orders. You could wind up bleeding from the face with teeth missing.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: mc squared, 4/15/2017 3:46:24 PM     (No. 11222901)

The airline made an economic decision that they would rather haul a belligerent passenger off than offer a bigger carrot - to any taker.

They lost. Bad decision.

Now it will cost United much more. But I know nothing of business, airlines, aviation regulations, or even basic law.

Nor human nature.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: Twinkle93, 4/15/2017 3:57:41 PM     (No. 11222908)

The root cause is why wasn´t the decision made on how many people had to be bumped before the passengers were allowed on? This is a management problem on United´s part.

If you are against the airlines overbooking flights, ask the ticket agent when you check in next time, what the average number of no shows they experience at that particular airport.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: citizen, 4/15/2017 4:03:14 PM     (No. 11222914)

Airline industry is the only business where it´s legal to sell something you don´t have, like seats that have been paid for.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: lawdoc, 4/15/2017 4:06:03 PM     (No. 11222915)

Using the police to use violence to remove a paid passenger who contracted, paid for, and was lawfully in his seat in favor of the entity that took his lawful payment for that seat so it could save money to move their employee for their own interest is a wrongful use of the coercive force of government. Disobeying a "lawful" order is wrong, but using the police to enforce a non-safety related order to financially reward one of the two parties in a dispute is not lawful. The courts and jury will, appropriately decide this issue. It won´t be pretty for United. Whether or not the doctor was a great guy is totally irrelevant. I suspect had it been me, I too would have been bloodied.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: JHHolliday, 4/15/2017 4:19:29 PM     (No. 11222931)

Two sides, as always. The airline should have upped the payment to leave. The passenger appears to be a nutter and going ape-crazy is not the thing to do. In defense of the airline, this bumping occurs all the time. In this case United got unlucky with an intractable passenger and some bully-boy airport coppers. They will pay for it.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: ocjim, 4/15/2017 4:38:21 PM     (No. 11222950)

FTA: ´´Voluntary assembly, together with free speech, is the heart of our democracy.´´

I like Charles Lipson but his words echo other worldly here in light of Conservatives plight to make simple speaking appearances at today´s broken, hijacked colleges.

United simply did not give their ground crew proper tools to get the job done. Limited by amount they could pay out and failure of their lottery, they were left with coercion, executed by a third rate force, the Chicago Airport Police. So the passenger and United sealed their fates.
Proper tools, United.

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Reply 18 - Posted by: ocjim, 4/15/2017 4:44:47 PM     (No. 11222957)

#4, The computer program that selects the passengers to boot off, is not a simple lottery. Taken into consideration are a number of factors, like type of ticket, connecting flights, flying frequency, etc. The doctor was one of the lower ones on that evaluative totem pole and therefore selected randomly from amongst similarly weak, if you will, ticketed others on that flight.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: Muncssister, 4/15/2017 5:55:36 PM     (No. 11223013)

They would have had to drag me off the plane too. They wouldn´t keep me from my children/ important meeting/ wedding/ funeral/ non-refundable vacation without a fight. But then again, I´m just some rube poster who doesn´t know anything about air travel, consumer rights, customer service, or police hostility. But good for all of the experts in compliance out there who I´m sure when faced with the same circumstances, would graciously and quietly bend over for the airline gestapo. Afterall, that´s the storied American spirit that won the west and a whole lot of wars, didn´t it?

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Reply 20 - Posted by: navybrat, 4/15/2017 6:04:19 PM     (No. 11223023)

This belligerent 69 year old threw a temper tantrum like a 3 year old. He has experience with the legal system being a lawbreaker himself. You hear nothing about the three other passengers who acted like adults and left the plane.

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Reply 21 - Posted by: lakerman1, 4/15/2017 6:29:28 PM     (No. 11223051)

What did United tell the security officer? That the passenger was trespassing? Didn´t have a ticket?
The passenger was legally in the right, in my opinion.
Is it that much different if you were rousted out of your hotel room, just as you are falling asleep, because the hotel needed your room for a more importannt guest? And had overbooked?

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Reply 22 - Posted by: EQKimball, 4/15/2017 7:39:48 PM     (No. 11223094)

Yesterday the United Airlines (12,500) pilots association announced it was appalled the passenger was physically removed. UA then announced that henceforth no seated passenger would be forced to get off a plane. It also said that it would continue to up the incentive incrementally to $10,000. Finally it said that all employee stand-bys must check in at least one hour before departure or take the next flight.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: saguni, 4/15/2017 8:28:33 PM     (No. 11223121)

The comments about Dr. Dao by poster #1 are irrelevant, what is relevant is he immediately rose his voice. Escalating by raising one´s voice is grounds for the flight crew to have you removed with or without the bumping situation. A more relevant portion of his "history" is treatment for anger management, the man had a short fuse.

A calmer, more effective solution may have been to offer to up the payout to have some other passenger take his place..."I´ll add $100 to the airline´s $800 to get somebody to take my place."

I have a little less sympathy for Dr. Dao than I reserve for loud "protesters" who go limp so the police have to carry them after they are arrested. If he had not violently resisted removal, he wouldn´t have smacked his own face on the seat resulting in the lost teeth. He could have--at any time--simply acted like an adult and taken his protest to the boarding gate to speak with someone with more authority to appease him.

As I have posted before...the next time you purchase an airline ticket, educate yourself and read the disclosures and realize they are written to increase the airline´s "rights" while reducing yours in every clause of the disclosure.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: PAdiva, 4/15/2017 8:41:22 PM     (No. 11223129)

The writer of the article doesn´t use spell check. diktat??????

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Reply 25 - Posted by: Charactercounts, 4/16/2017 2:08:06 AM     (No. 11223301)

#1, the man´s past has no bearing on what United did.

Even past felons have rights.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: rmsimms, 4/17/2017 8:00:44 AM     (No. 11224121)

They were looking for people they figured wouldn´t stand up for themselves and he probably got picked because they figured an "asian" would defer to authority and not make a fuss....morons.

Whatever the man´s past, I can understand why he would refuse to give up his seat for a fistful of $50 vouchers for future flights, that can only be used one at a time and expire in a year, of course. If they had offered cash on top of another ticket, someone would have bit.

Personally, I´m surprised they didn´t go after the guy filming, considering that what he did was a violation of Ill-annoy law and actually a felony. Not that it should be, it just is.

We´ve come a long way from "Coffee, tea, or me" era to the flying cattle cars that make up commercial aviation....I´d father drive personally.

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Putin’s election assault

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Washington Post, by Greg Miller*    Original Article
Posted By: Dreadnought- 6/23/2017 7:27:24 AM     Post Reply
Eaarly last August, an envelope with extraordinary handling restrictions arrived at the White House. Sent by courier from the CIA, it carried “eyes only” instructions that its contents be shown to just four people: President Barack Obama and three senior aides. Inside was an intelligence bombshell, a report drawn from sourcing deep inside the Russian government that detailed Russian President Vladi­mir Putin’s direct involvement in a cyber campaign to disrupt and discredit the U.S. presidential race. But it went further. The intelligence captured Putin’s specific instructions on the operation’s audacious objectives — defeat or at least damage the Democratic nominee,

Ferguson attorney: Brown
family settlement $1.5 million

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Associated Press, by Jim Salter    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 6/23/2017 2:29:44 PM     Post Reply
ST. LOUIS - The insurance company for the city of Ferguson, Missouri, paid $1.5 million to settle a wrongful death lawsuit filed by Michael Brown´s parents, the city attorney said Friday. Attorney Apollo Carey disclosed the amount in an email in response to an open records request. The settlement of the federal lawsuit was announced Tuesday, but financial details were not initially released. Carey declined further comment on the settlement. A phone message seeking comment from the attorney for the family, Anthony Gray, was not immediately returned. Brown, 18, was black and unarmed when he was fatally shot by white officer Darren Wilson

Clinton: GOP will become the
´death party´ if Senate bill passes

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Fox News, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 6/23/2017 9:20:24 PM     Post Reply
Former presidential nominee Hillary Clinton came out swinging in a tweet Friday, saying if Senate Republicans pass their current healthcare bill, they will become the “death party.” Clinton’s post referenced an article from the Center for American Progress, an independent nonpartisan policy institute, which cited Harvard researchers as saying “the Senate bill could result in 18,000 to 28,000 deaths in 2026.” (Snip) The tweet from Clinton follows an earlier tweet urging her supporters to "speak out against" the bill.

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