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Pope´s possible deal with China
would ´betray Christ´, says
Hong Kong cardinal

The Guardian, by Benjamin Haas, Tom Phillips *

Original Article

Posted By:Harlowe, 11/27/2016 11:52:43 PM

The most senior Chinese Catholic has slammed a potential rapprochement between the Vatican and Beijing, saying it would be “betraying Jesus Christ”, amid a thaw in more than six decades of bitter relations. Talk of a deal between the two sides has been building for months, with some saying the diplomatic coup for Pope Francis would be resolving the highly controversial issue of allowing China’s Communist government to have a hand in selecting bishops. But Cardinal Joseph Zen, the 84-year-old former bishop of Hong Kong, has been an outspoken critic, saying any agreement where Beijing would have a hand in

Comments:
* Additional reporting by Christy Yao.

Cardinal Zen stated that the clergy needs to side with the people, the poor, the persecuted, and not government.

      


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Reply 1 - Posted by: kono, 11/28/2016 12:12:16 AM     (No. 11042736)

Lord, have mercy.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: GhostofChesterton, 11/28/2016 12:47:47 AM     (No. 11042749)

This Pope´s stance on worldly issues has driven me away from the Church. Haven´t been to confession yet, but my priest is not going to be able to put lipstick on this pig. He needs to stick to ecclesiastical issues and keep his socialist ideology to himself. His Pollyannish understanding of economics and blindness to the oppression of socialism are a pox on the Church.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: ColonialAmerican1623, 11/28/2016 12:55:07 AM     (No. 11042752)

With each story about the Pope, I go back to Bathhousebarry beating a path to his door soon as he moved into the Vatican. There are things We don´t know.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: Timber Queen, 11/28/2016 1:25:25 AM     (No. 11042764)

This pope saddens my heart deeply. I console myself that the Church has survived false popes in the past through the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit. I’ve already stopped any second collection for the Vatican and the “social justice” agencies like Campaign for Human Development. I’ll reassess my financial support for the Diocese dependent upon my Bishop’s response to this intended betrayal. I’ll continue to support my parish.

Above all else I am devoted to the Catholic Faith and its central tenant that the Real Presence of Christ’s Body and Blood is The Eucharist. Fully recognizing our communion with the Orthodox Churches, for me the Roman Catholic Church is my only access to Holy Mass. From the beginning of the day to the end of the day, deepening my relationship with Our Lord is the only purpose for living through this exile, and I cannot do it fully without The Eucharist. I’m in a small town parish in an isolated part of a backwater Diocese. I pray we escape this pope’s heretical nonsense.

May 13, 2017 will the 100th anniversary of the appearance of our Blessed Mother at Fatima. The predictions of WWII and the spread of the error of communism have been fulfilled. The Third Secret speaks of a bloody pope martyred on the steps of St. Peter’s. St. John Paul II released the Secret with the interpretation that it had been fulfilled, and thwarted, by Our Lady herself with his survival on Fatima’s Feast Day. [Side Bar: A year later JP II made a pilgrimage to the shrine and left the bullet. It now resides in her statue’s crown.] Could it be possible that instead of a “bloody” pope, it was a warning against a “red” pope?

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Reply 5 - Posted by: cdr, 11/28/2016 1:35:25 AM     (No. 11042770)

this pope

is casting off Christ love for communist tyranny

a example of true spiritual depravity



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Reply 6 - Posted by: privateer, 11/28/2016 6:18:59 AM     (No. 11042823)

I have always suspected that Pope Benedict was removed because HIS version of "globalism" was limited to religion.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: Udanja99, 11/28/2016 7:27:37 AM     (No. 11042861)

Thank you #4. I´m a 26 year Catholic convert and also attend a small town parish but we are just outside of Washington DC. Believe it or not, our diocese is the only one in the country where girls are still not allowed to be altar servers.

So far, I´ve not heard one word about this pope´s idiocy repeated by our priests. The day that I do is the day that I walk out.

When Benedict became pope I thought that it was a brilliant move by the cardinals - that they were hoping he would do for westerrn secular Europe what JPII did for Communist Eastern Europe - bring them back into the Church.

Then they did a 180. I´d love to know what really happened - it probably reads like a Dan Brown novel.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: cindiana, 11/28/2016 7:32:44 AM     (No. 11042863)

Thanks and prayers for my fellow practicing Catholics here who share my heartbreak over this Pope. You express all the concerns and frustrations I feel, and I find it reassuring to come here and read your words. Bad enough the condition of our world, but when the condition of our Church with this man at the helm seems as much in peril, what do we do?

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Reply 9 - Posted by: hpmatt, 11/28/2016 8:11:25 AM     (No. 11042896)

As a non Catholic, I think this is about the money. What -3 billion chinese? Just bend the ´Truth if Christ´ a little bit... Cannot tell if this is an effort to really spread the word of Christ or to build riches of a worldly kingdom, or his opponents and weasels in the press distorting his efforts.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: kate318, 11/28/2016 8:50:46 AM     (No. 11042926)

Thank you, #4. I share your thoughts on the Church and the Eucharist.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: DCGIRL, 11/28/2016 9:07:02 AM     (No. 11042941)

This pope is in the pocket of Soros.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: oldmagnolia, 11/28/2016 9:08:12 AM     (No. 11042942)

#4 I share your thoughts too. Benedict was removed probably for a very dark reason. Now that Castro has finally died and the stories come back to print, we have to go back in time and remember a few things. Castro and Guevara wanted to spread the revolution to every country in South America. They were helped by the Jesuits and their social justice under liberation theology. They succeeded. They imported the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, Mala Salvatrucha in El Salvador, FAR in Colombia, Tupamaros in Uruguay, Montoneros in Argentina and I forget a few more. The time period was the late 50s and early 60s. This pope was in his 20s and he is also a Jesuit. This is my theory but connect the dots.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: Bugboy, 11/28/2016 9:51:18 AM     (No. 11042977)

It´s interesting when you read the scriptures and then see pieces falling into place.



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Reply 14 - Posted by: Rumblehog, 11/28/2016 10:52:06 AM     (No. 11043038)

How ironic for this Pope, an alleged, "man of the people" to side with evil China, the atheist giant of Asia. He. like most businesses, must be smelling the money-making potential.
Interestingly, it´s Protestants who´ve been making the greatest inroads into China with churches and attracting converts to Christianity. The famous China Inland Mission was one of only a few that were very active there before WWII and Communism drove them out.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: dvc, 11/28/2016 10:52:36 AM     (No. 11043039)

The seeds planted by missionaries around the world have grown well and the Christians there see the dissolution and decay of the old Church leadership much more clearly from afar.

This pope is a bad one, let us hope his soon gone. I am not a Catholic, but have attended Catholic school and understand and respect Catholocism greatly. Sad that Pope Bendict XVI couldn´t continue on for a few more decades, but all are mortal.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: Harlowe, 11/28/2016 11:16:39 AM     (No. 11043068)

#4#10- The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS) Communion: “…we receive in, with, and under the bread and wine the true body and blood of Christ shed on the cross, Jesus Christ Who is now risen and ascended and sits at the right hand of God the Father.”

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Reply 17 - Posted by: Elvira, 11/28/2016 12:00:47 PM     (No. 11043092)

I join other posters here in appreciation of #4´s post. I am so disheartened by the actions of our current Pope. I´m also saddened that those who chose this man must have known his tendencies toward politics. Yet, he was promoted as a "man of the people" for the way he chose to live, eschewing the finer living quarters provided by the Church. Can these really be the same leaders who chose Pope John Paul II?

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Reply 18 - Posted by: ebuilder, 11/28/2016 12:22:27 PM     (No. 11043107)

A few years ago my wife and I went to China. We smuggled in Bibles and other "illegal" literature. We were caught and released. Our guide, a Pentecostal minster and a former official in the Communist Party before he was saved, took us to meetings so that we could give the Bibles away. People traveled on trains standing up for 7 hours. We met living martyrs who told us they were imprisoned for decades, tortured, including being forced to eat their own excrement -- all because they would not renounce Christianity. The underground churches are solid. The people are very brave and joyous. The state approved churches mistranslate the Gospel [e.g., Mary was not a virgin], and their ministers are monitored for what they can say. The biggest hurt for me was seeing what these people have to go through for their faith, and how the ministers are on fire for God! -- and how America has no idea how luke warm we have become.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: Timber Queen, 11/28/2016 3:58:04 PM     (No. 11043344)

Bravo #18

#16 – Correct me if I’ve got this wrong. Yes, we agree that we receive the True Body and True Blood of Christ at Holy Communion. However, Catholics believe that the True Presence continues to reside in the Host until that Host is consumed or naturally dissolved. I understand that Lutherans believe the True Presence is no longer residing once the worship service is ended. Catholics keep The Eucharist inside gold tabernacles and worship Him in Adoration. What do Lutherans do with consecrated Hosts that are not consumed?

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Reply 20 - Posted by: jlw509, 11/28/2016 6:52:00 PM     (No. 11043587)

To #4 and other suffering Catholics (of whom I am one, myself): May I respectfully recommend deep study of the History of the Church by such great historians as Christopher Dawson,Warren Carroll, etc After the shock passes, it tends to steady one.

In the course of 266 popes, the Church seen some men of brilliance, some splendid saints, some shifters and wobblers, some dim-bulbs, some morally tainted specimens and a handful of skin-crawling baddies.

The God-pleasing response is to keep upholding the Faith that was handed down to you from the Apostles; love God and neighbor; pray for the straying clergy and correct them when you can; Stay Calm And Live Catholic.





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Reply 21 - Posted by: Harlowe, 11/28/2016 10:04:23 PM     (No. 11043791)

#19- A lay person’s response, based on LCMS doctrine; to better understand disposition of unused consecrated elements, first an explanation of true presence is appropriate.

True-Presence: Based on the “WORD” of Christ, “Take, eat; this is My body. Drink ye all of this; this is the new testament in My blood,” etc. Take away the WORD, or regard it without the WORD, it is nothing but mere bread and wine. If the words remain with them (shall and must, in virtue of the same) it is truly the body and blood of Christ--Christ can never lie or deceive.

[Continued]

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Reply 22 - Posted by: Harlowe, 11/28/2016 10:04:33 PM     (No. 11043792)

[Continued]

“The true presence of the body and blood of Christ in the Holy Supper is established from God’s WORD; and this [presence] is understood not only of the believing and worthy, but also of the unbelieving and unworthy.”

Post-Communion: “While Scripture does not tell us whether Christ’s body and blood are still present in the blood and wine after Communion, we should still treat what remains with greatest reverence.” The point “is to recognize the fact that these elements were used in the service to deliver our Lord’s very body and blood to us.

[Continued]

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Reply 23 - Posted by: Harlowe, 11/28/2016 10:04:45 PM     (No. 11043793)

[Continued]

How we treat them after the service should never lose sight of that great mystery of faith.” On that basis, “care should be taken that inordinate amounts of bread and wine are not consecrated at each service, but rather just what is needed for that service.” On the basis of the directive of the WORD, the remaining consecrated elements are stored for future consecration and distribution.

Again, only a layperson’s response. Would feel far more comfortable with a LCMS clergy response to the question raised by #19.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: Timber Queen, 11/29/2016 2:33:25 PM     (No. 11044738)

#21-23: Thank you for the detailed explanation. Glad to know I had the basic belief correct, and now I know the teaching. I always enjoy your posts and admire your defense of Christianity. There are many threads where you’ve saved me a lot of typing. Keep up the good work. God bless.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: Harlowe, 11/29/2016 9:41:43 PM     (No. 11045391)

#24 Thank you from a longtime admirer for this very kind and generous response, as well your various other most welcome, informative, articulate posts that are respectful and educational; posts that enhance and dignify this excellent website and make it a pleasure to visit.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: Harlowe, 11/29/2016 9:44:21 PM     (No. 11045395)

#24 - Oops! God bless!!!

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Independent [UK], by Ian Johnston    Original Article
Posted By: Pluperfect- 3/25/2017 5:01:14 AM     Post Reply
Brexit was caused in part by climate change, former US Vice-President Al Gore has said, warning that extreme weather is creating political instability “the world will find extremely difficult to deal with”. Mr Gore, speaking at an event in which he previewed a sequel to his landmark 2006 documentary, An Inconvenient Truth, said the “principal” cause of the Syrian Civil War had been the worst drought in 900 years, which forced 1.5 million people to move from the countryside to the cities. There they met a similar number of Iraqis who had fled the conflict in their homeland, creating powder keg conditions

Paul Ryan Is Solely To Blame
For RyanCare´s Demise

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Investor´s Business Daily, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: RockyTCB- 3/24/2017 5:04:13 PM     Post Reply
Health Reform: Friday´s decision to pull the American Health Care Act from the House floor because it lacked enough votes to pass was a culmination of months of bad decisions, poor planning, and terrible messaging by the GOP leadership in the House. This failure undermines not only the party´s credibility, but President Trump´s purported ability to "make great deals." Worse, it emboldens the left-wing "resistance." Back in early December, we warned in this space that the Republican´s ObamaCare repeal effort was "off to a bad start." That was when House Speaker Paul Ryan was talking up a "repeal and delay" plan that

Whatever you do, don’t say yes when
this chatbot asks, ´Can you hear me?´

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Los Angeles Times, by David Lazarus    Original Article
Posted By: Honeybadger- 3/25/2017 7:29:49 AM     Post Reply
It´s the most cunning robocall scam I’ve encountered — and the fact that I’ve fallen for it more than once tells you how successful it can be. The phone rings. You pick it up and say “hello.” There’s a brief silence and then a woman’s voice says, “Oh, hi there!” She offers an embarrassed laugh. “I’m sorry, I was having a little trouble with my headset!”I’ve gotten this call a number of times in recent weeks, at home and at work, and each time I’ve been suckered by the lifelike opening to stay on the line longer than I normally

Republicans Admit Defeat On
Health Care Bill: ´Obamacare
Is The Law Of The Land´

24 replie(s)
National Public Radio, by Jessica Taylor    Original Article
Posted By: RockyTCB- 3/24/2017 5:13:40 PM     Post Reply
House Republicans scrapped a vote on their health care replacement plan on Friday after defections from both the right and center that made it clear the bill would not pass. President Trump tried to spin the setback as a defeat for Democrats who wouldn´t cross the aisle to support the bill — despite not making any entreaties to the minority party. Trump — who is the first president to enter office without any political or legislative experience — did seem to admit there was a bit of a learning curve when it came to such a complex issue. "This was an interesting


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