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Marijuana Legalization Would
Be ´a Health Catastrophe´

Weekly Standard, by William Kristol

Original Article

Posted By:StormCnter, 7/28/2014 4:58:57 AM

A leading drug policy researcher, David Murray, has a must-read piece up at the Hudson Institute website, "Comparing Marijuana and Alcohol: Seriously." Murray´s article is a devastating deconstruction of claims that marijuana is relatively safe, or at least safer than alcohol. And, as he points out, it thereby undermines much of the basis of the New York Times´s blithely irresponsible editorial endorsement of marijuana legalization. Read Murray´s whole piece. Here are highlights: It’s a remarkable weekend when one finds the Grey Lady arguing for state’s rights, and worrying huffily about arbitrary Presidential powers. But when it comes to smoking dope, the mind

The link in Kristol´s piece doesn´t work. Here is the correct link to Murray´s very informative piece:



Reply 1 - Posted by: bkt23, 7/28/2014 6:34:23 AM     (No. 9942710)

I don´t use or advocate the use of pot. But I recognize it is no one´s job to prevent anyone from using it.

Making it illegal was itself an illegal act, at least on the federal level and it´s way past time we all recognized the fact and fixed that problem.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: provide, 7/28/2014 7:08:21 AM     (No. 9942732)

If they claim it´s medicine, then liberals should clammer for its open and public ingestion everywhere including classrooms and hospitals.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: CecilStrange, 7/28/2014 7:33:08 AM     (No. 9942766)

to say that today´s M is more powerful than yesterday´s M is a fallacy. Perhaps more consistent now but back in the day there were some powerful variants (Gold, Red, Sensi, Thai sticks) - there was also junk weed around.
Maybe Bill and his buds didn´t know the right people.
When was the last time you had a drink Bill? - A dangerous to society alcoholic beverage? Did you rip a tiny part of the fabric of society by imbibing?
Row your own boat and stay thirsty my friend.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: Kitty Myers, 7/28/2014 8:56:46 AM     (No. 9942847)

Rush once said, We don´t need another legal high, and I agree.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: tank, 7/28/2014 8:57:39 AM     (No. 9942849)

I´ll have to read the longer piece at lunch, so can´t comment fully. However, at first glance, some of the recent studies have been sorta flawed, or reported on improperly - a recent one which reports say it was proven to increase schizophrenia turned out to be flawed reporting, for one thing. The fact is, because governments banned research for so many years, we´re just now developing a ´´modern´´ understanding of it.

However, to me it´s a trade-off, too. The destruction of our civil liberties and the out-of-control police state in this country can be directly traced back to the ´´War on Drugs.´´ These things bother me more, because it has reached into every facet of our lives and caused much damage. Add to that a belief in personal autonomy and self-governance and, well, you know...

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Reply 6 - Posted by: pursuitoftruth, 7/28/2014 9:00:18 AM     (No. 9942855)

Pot should not be a crime. Period.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: SpeedMaster, 7/28/2014 9:24:45 AM     (No. 9942894)

In todays poor economy pot becomes a means to weed out (pun?) those who do/will not work. Companies will still give drug tests for employment.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: toddh, 7/28/2014 9:37:02 AM     (No. 9942911)

David Murray is a "no safe dose" imbecile, exactly like the people who sabotaged America´s nuclear power industry. William Kristol should be ashamed but is probably too damn drunk to care.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: saguni, 7/28/2014 10:05:50 AM     (No. 9942961)

Twenty-seven years ago, in rehab as a co-dependent/enabler, the counselors said:

Marijuana causes more lung damage than cigarettes and more brain damage than alcohol. It is addictive and has a withdrawal period about six weeks after the last usage, when one has the sniffles for a day.

I have never seen any research that disputes any of the above.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: Eheu Fugaces, 7/28/2014 10:20:01 AM     (No. 9942975)

Wowie Kazowie! The Stoner Army has mobilized for attack this morning! Cool, dudes (and dudesses). Please be sure to finance your own treatment for your psychotic breaks, lung cancer, etc. -- I am disinclined to pay for the consequences of your fun.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: Ida Lou Pino, 7/28/2014 10:23:05 AM     (No. 9942985)

I never thought I´d see the day when this forum became an advocate of big, big government. But - - here we are - - officially buying into the for-boobs-only canard that only the big gummint can save us from ourselves.

But no matter what delusions may have overcome the caption writers - - the fact is that Prohibition is an outrageous violation of our individual, Constitutional rights to ingest whatever we choose to.

A foolish Constitutional amendment - - later Constitutionally repealed - - was required to ban alcoholic beverages - - but apparently no such Constitutional amendment is required to ban narcotic drugs. Individual rights can be trampled by jackbooted thugs - - without a whimper of protest from this once-sensible forum.

No one wants to see public intoxication. It´s a danger to our freedom. But that´s exactly what we have under Prohibition - - because law enforcement is too busy trying to eradicate PRIVATE intoxication.

It´s sad to see this forum become just another big gummint, busybody, delusional leftist outlet - - but no one ever said that life would be free of sadness.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: tomanderson61, 7/28/2014 10:43:53 AM     (No. 9943029)

I really have to laugh at the same old site libertarians with their flawed and contrarian opinions about "freedom".

So my foolish friends, what is YOUR solution?

Yeah yeah, I know, pot should be legal and the big bad government should let us all dope up.

Using your logic, and I know that some of you agree, we legalize pot, we must legalize every single drug out there.

They all have to be legal.

Don´t give me that BS that they should set some potency limit and have the government (and my tax dollars) regulate it. The potheads will just get the black market stuff from gangsters. No problem solved regarding crime there. Don´t tell me that pot is safer than a little coke. What right do you have as a regular pot smoker to begrudge me a monthly hit of coke? How dare you!

So the answer must be simple. Legalize ALL drugs. Cool.

Let me know how that kidney stone, getting ready to give birth, chest pain, etc, emergency room visit goes next time. Besides waiting for all the illegal aliens to be served, you can also know those good ER doctors will be spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to combat whatever stupid drug the idiot kid is having seizures from.

Maybe your kid. But hell, he´ll be free, right?

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Reply 13 - Posted by: oh-heck, 7/28/2014 10:49:57 AM     (No. 9943040)

I went to MIT in 1971-5. All had excelled to get in and the opportunities to accelerate your career in science or engineering using the resources available were awesome. One of my freshman roommates started his physics doctorate at Cal Tech after one year at MIT. The frequent marijuana users became heavily dependent. They passed their classes but failed entirely to take advantage of the opportunity to be part of the science and engineering advances that were available to them as undergraduates. I missed a lot of opportunity because I was too introverted to interact with the professors. I shudder to think how I would have done had I simply not cared.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: tomanderson61, 7/28/2014 10:51:22 AM     (No. 9943042)

#9, look at some of the responses right here. There are statements that the article itself takes on and debunks! Which means one of two things.

Either they didn´t read the article, or they didn´t understand the article (I can guess why they cannot).

It´s simple. This hand wringing about "big government" is not what this is about. My dad HATES big government, always has. Same with me. No one in my family or friends are worried about big government when it comes to drugs. No one I have ever known is. That´s is because I don´t run with trash that uses drugs. Simple.

The argument is a smoke screen. Always has been. They´re users and enablers. Every last one of them.

The really precious one "I don´t condone the use of pot, and I don´t use it, but I don´t believe government should tell people what they cannot do!"

Preciously stupid.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: Ida Lou Pino, 7/28/2014 10:53:22 AM     (No. 9943043)

Pro-Prohibitionists always resort to horror scenarios to support their position - - but - -

- - the horror scenarios they describe are the ones which are happening now - - WITH Prohibition.

And yet- - they never see any irony in that.

What Prohibitionists really want to outlaw is stupidity and self-destructiveness - - as if giving big government tyrannical powers will accomplish that.

All drugs should be legal because choosing to ingest them - - or not to ingest them - - is our Constitutional right. If anyone wants to change that Constitutional right - - let them get congress and the states to pass a Constitutional amendment.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: tank, 7/28/2014 10:55:06 AM     (No. 9943048)

You either believe in the concept of self-government, as envisioned by the Founders, or you don´t.

Heed the words of Ben Franklin...

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Reply 17 - Posted by: Garage Logician, 7/28/2014 11:01:45 AM     (No. 9943060)

This reduction ad absurdum canard that suggests if we legalaze grass we might as well legalize all drugs is so tiresome. We could just as reasonably go in the other direction and insist that since we ban, mostly, marijuana, we should also once again prohibit booze.

These issues are about drawing lines and being practical. Prohibition failed because alcohol consumption proved to be too popular. We´re heading to the same endpoint with marijuana. I don´t expect we´ll ever legalize meth - too many crime and health problems.

Bottom line, we have to consider all the costs of legalizing any drug: health impacts, personal liberty, costs of law enforcement and incarceration, etc.

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Reply 18 - Posted by: Garage Logician, 7/28/2014 11:09:45 AM     (No. 9943071)

...reductio ! Darned spellbots!

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Reply 19 - Posted by: tomanderson61, 7/28/2014 11:11:27 AM     (No. 9943075)

So tiresome #17? What is so tiresome is people like you who CONTINUE to brink out the alcohol comparison, in response to an article that blows HOLES wide open in your point!

You didn´t read the article, or you didn´t GET the article. Man up and admit it.

The facts are the facts, so either refute my points--forget my points, refute the article, or stop with the repetitive, useless, three lines of reprinted pot-store pamphlet BS.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: tomanderson61, 7/28/2014 11:14:01 AM     (No. 9943078)

Only someone loaded would say:

"I don´t expect we´ll ever legalize meth - too many crime and health problems." in context of a pot discussion.

Yeah, no crime or health problems associated with pot!


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Reply 21 - Posted by: archbishopofaberlour, 7/28/2014 11:25:38 AM     (No. 9943091)

Colorado looked for a tax windfall from the legalization of marijuana. Denver homeless shelters are now overflowing with street people who´ve moved there to do nothing but smoke.

And there goes that tax windfall.


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Reply 22 - Posted by: tank, 7/28/2014 11:41:55 AM     (No. 9943108)

OK, read the article at the Hudson Institute. I´m sorry, but the guy is all over the place in his reasoning. The article confronts comparing alcohol use with marijuana use, and makes some useful points - it is difficult to compare the two from a public health perspective, I´ll admit, but the ´´researcher´´ does a few things to make this article less valuable.

The comparison of self-reported usage and dependency rates for alcohol vs. MJ. Then he , without saying how he got there, assumes that usage will skyrocket to high levels beyond the current 16% self-reported. Nice strawman he´s built there.

Discounting data that isn´t ´´recent,´´ unless, of course, they say what he wants, as he freely goes back to much earlier statements by ´´experts´´ that confirm his bias. If those ´´experts´´ many years ago were relying on studies performed many years ago, he´s already discounted these studies, yet he relies on the ´´experts´´ who interpreted them. OK, that´s so illogical it may be causing me physical pain.

Lastly, no discussion of the real effects Prohibition has had on this country, it´s citizen´s civil rights, and freedoms, and the corruption of law enforcement.

He also makes a lot of claims without citing his sources - not good for an article of this type, and it makes the conclusions suspect.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: Ida Lou Pino, 7/28/2014 11:48:35 AM     (No. 9943118)

A Constitutional right is a Constitutional right.

There is nothing in the Constitution which allows the federal government to outlaw anything that anyone chooses to ingest.

It doesn´t matter at all if something may be unhealthy or dangerous. The supermarkets and malls are full of unhealthy and dangerous legal items. It´s up to free individuals to make their own choices.

Giving the government tyrannical power is always a bad idea. Giving it tyrannical power over personal ingestion choices is an absolute horror - - as we clearly can see.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: lcomstaff, 7/28/2014 11:54:42 AM     (No. 9943128)

Thread getting unpleasant. Closing.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: Garage Logician, 7/28/2014 11:57:46 AM     (No. 9943135)

Some people need to mellow out and refrain from personal attacks.

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Thread Closed

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Daily Mail [UK], by John Hall    Original Article
Posted By: Judy W.- 9/17/2014 8:10:03 PM     Post Reply
A village of just 1,000 residents in Switzerland has been forced to raise taxes because an African refugee and her seven children cost the local authority £40,000 in benefits every month. Hagenbuch, in the Swiss canton of Zurich, is understood to be spending close to a third of its total annual budget on the family after they arrived from Eritrea in East Africa three years ago. The massive benefits bill covers day-to-day living expenses such as groceries and cleaning costs, as well as paying for four of the woman´s children to be housed in an orphanage and even bills for

Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee
on the strategy for dealing with ISIL

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Kingwood Observer (Houston, TX), by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: Scottyboy- 9/17/2014 5:55:33 PM     Post Reply
Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, a Senior Member of the House Homeland Security Committee and House Judiciary Committee and Ranking Member of the Border and Maritime Subcommittee.(snip) The Congresswoman released the following statement: “The bloodshed at the hands of ISIL has been enormous. Religious minorities have been persecuted. American and British citizens have been beheaded. There is a further threat of other innocent human beings to be beheaded or killed in some way. It is also clear that a war including the United States is not the answer. I abhor the violence of war when diplomacy can be used.

Obamacare Creator: Die At 75!
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Breitbart, Big Government, by Ben Shapiro    Original Article
Posted By: Vastrightwingconspirator- 9/18/2014 5:00:01 PM     Post Reply
Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, one of the masterminds behind Obamacare, has now explained that he wishes to die at age 75. In an article in The Atlantic, Emanuel writes, “Seventy-five. That’s how long I want to live: 75 years.” He explains that his daughters disagree; so do his brothers and his friends. But, he says, “I am sure of my position…here is a simple truth that many of us seem to resist: living too long is also a loss. It renders many of us, if not disabled, then faltering and declining, a state that may not be worse than death but

Dick Durbin: Amnesty Bill Will
Help Contain Ebola

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Breitbart Big Government, by Tony Lee    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 9/17/2014 6:37:23 AM     Post Reply
On Tuesday, Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) said that a comprehensive amnesty bill would have helped America contain the Ebola epidemic in Africa. Durbin, a member of the Senate´s Gang of Eight that wrote the immigration reform bill, said during a Senate hearing on Ebola that the Senate´s amnesty bill would have even allowed doctors in the United States to travel to Africa to combat Ebola "without jeopardizing their immigration status." “We included in the immigration reform bill, which passed the United States Senate, a provision which provided, in one respect, if you are medically trained in Africa and promise to

Corker´s Kerry Critique Leaves
Boxer ´Shaking and Trembling´

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Breitbart TV, by Pam Key    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 9/17/2014 4:54:50 PM     Post Reply
(Video) Wednesday at the Senate Foreign Relation Committee hearing on U.S. strategy for combating ISIS, after Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) criticized Secretary of State John Kerry, Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) was left "shaking and trembling" in shock. Boxer said, "I think it is shocking and a sad state of affairs that we heard just now, such angry comments aimed at you, Mr. Secretary, and through you, at our president instead of at ISIS, a savage group who decapitated two Americans and have warned, and I quote, that their thirst for more American blood is right out there." "I think it´s shocking,"

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