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Marijuana Legalization Would
Be ´a Health Catastrophe´

Weekly Standard, by William Kristol

Original Article

Posted By:StormCnter, 7/28/2014 4:58:57 AM

A leading drug policy researcher, David Murray, has a must-read piece up at the Hudson Institute website, "Comparing Marijuana and Alcohol: Seriously." Murray´s article is a devastating deconstruction of claims that marijuana is relatively safe, or at least safer than alcohol. And, as he points out, it thereby undermines much of the basis of the New York Times´s blithely irresponsible editorial endorsement of marijuana legalization. Read Murray´s whole piece. Here are highlights: It’s a remarkable weekend when one finds the Grey Lady arguing for state’s rights, and worrying huffily about arbitrary Presidential powers. But when it comes to smoking dope, the mind

The link in Kristol´s piece doesn´t work. Here is the correct link to Murray´s very informative piece:



Reply 1 - Posted by: bkt23, 7/28/2014 6:34:23 AM     (No. 9942710)

I don´t use or advocate the use of pot. But I recognize it is no one´s job to prevent anyone from using it.

Making it illegal was itself an illegal act, at least on the federal level and it´s way past time we all recognized the fact and fixed that problem.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: provide, 7/28/2014 7:08:21 AM     (No. 9942732)

If they claim it´s medicine, then liberals should clammer for its open and public ingestion everywhere including classrooms and hospitals.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: CecilStrange, 7/28/2014 7:33:08 AM     (No. 9942766)

to say that today´s M is more powerful than yesterday´s M is a fallacy. Perhaps more consistent now but back in the day there were some powerful variants (Gold, Red, Sensi, Thai sticks) - there was also junk weed around.
Maybe Bill and his buds didn´t know the right people.
When was the last time you had a drink Bill? - A dangerous to society alcoholic beverage? Did you rip a tiny part of the fabric of society by imbibing?
Row your own boat and stay thirsty my friend.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: Kitty Myers, 7/28/2014 8:56:46 AM     (No. 9942847)

Rush once said, We don´t need another legal high, and I agree.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: tank, 7/28/2014 8:57:39 AM     (No. 9942849)

I´ll have to read the longer piece at lunch, so can´t comment fully. However, at first glance, some of the recent studies have been sorta flawed, or reported on improperly - a recent one which reports say it was proven to increase schizophrenia turned out to be flawed reporting, for one thing. The fact is, because governments banned research for so many years, we´re just now developing a ´´modern´´ understanding of it.

However, to me it´s a trade-off, too. The destruction of our civil liberties and the out-of-control police state in this country can be directly traced back to the ´´War on Drugs.´´ These things bother me more, because it has reached into every facet of our lives and caused much damage. Add to that a belief in personal autonomy and self-governance and, well, you know...

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Reply 6 - Posted by: pursuitoftruth, 7/28/2014 9:00:18 AM     (No. 9942855)

Pot should not be a crime. Period.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: SpeedMaster, 7/28/2014 9:24:45 AM     (No. 9942894)

In todays poor economy pot becomes a means to weed out (pun?) those who do/will not work. Companies will still give drug tests for employment.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: toddh, 7/28/2014 9:37:02 AM     (No. 9942911)

David Murray is a "no safe dose" imbecile, exactly like the people who sabotaged America´s nuclear power industry. William Kristol should be ashamed but is probably too damn drunk to care.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: saguni, 7/28/2014 10:05:50 AM     (No. 9942961)

Twenty-seven years ago, in rehab as a co-dependent/enabler, the counselors said:

Marijuana causes more lung damage than cigarettes and more brain damage than alcohol. It is addictive and has a withdrawal period about six weeks after the last usage, when one has the sniffles for a day.

I have never seen any research that disputes any of the above.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: Eheu Fugaces, 7/28/2014 10:20:01 AM     (No. 9942975)

Wowie Kazowie! The Stoner Army has mobilized for attack this morning! Cool, dudes (and dudesses). Please be sure to finance your own treatment for your psychotic breaks, lung cancer, etc. -- I am disinclined to pay for the consequences of your fun.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: Ida Lou Pino, 7/28/2014 10:23:05 AM     (No. 9942985)

I never thought I´d see the day when this forum became an advocate of big, big government. But - - here we are - - officially buying into the for-boobs-only canard that only the big gummint can save us from ourselves.

But no matter what delusions may have overcome the caption writers - - the fact is that Prohibition is an outrageous violation of our individual, Constitutional rights to ingest whatever we choose to.

A foolish Constitutional amendment - - later Constitutionally repealed - - was required to ban alcoholic beverages - - but apparently no such Constitutional amendment is required to ban narcotic drugs. Individual rights can be trampled by jackbooted thugs - - without a whimper of protest from this once-sensible forum.

No one wants to see public intoxication. It´s a danger to our freedom. But that´s exactly what we have under Prohibition - - because law enforcement is too busy trying to eradicate PRIVATE intoxication.

It´s sad to see this forum become just another big gummint, busybody, delusional leftist outlet - - but no one ever said that life would be free of sadness.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: tomanderson61, 7/28/2014 10:43:53 AM     (No. 9943029)

I really have to laugh at the same old site libertarians with their flawed and contrarian opinions about "freedom".

So my foolish friends, what is YOUR solution?

Yeah yeah, I know, pot should be legal and the big bad government should let us all dope up.

Using your logic, and I know that some of you agree, we legalize pot, we must legalize every single drug out there.

They all have to be legal.

Don´t give me that BS that they should set some potency limit and have the government (and my tax dollars) regulate it. The potheads will just get the black market stuff from gangsters. No problem solved regarding crime there. Don´t tell me that pot is safer than a little coke. What right do you have as a regular pot smoker to begrudge me a monthly hit of coke? How dare you!

So the answer must be simple. Legalize ALL drugs. Cool.

Let me know how that kidney stone, getting ready to give birth, chest pain, etc, emergency room visit goes next time. Besides waiting for all the illegal aliens to be served, you can also know those good ER doctors will be spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to combat whatever stupid drug the idiot kid is having seizures from.

Maybe your kid. But hell, he´ll be free, right?

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Reply 13 - Posted by: oh-heck, 7/28/2014 10:49:57 AM     (No. 9943040)

I went to MIT in 1971-5. All had excelled to get in and the opportunities to accelerate your career in science or engineering using the resources available were awesome. One of my freshman roommates started his physics doctorate at Cal Tech after one year at MIT. The frequent marijuana users became heavily dependent. They passed their classes but failed entirely to take advantage of the opportunity to be part of the science and engineering advances that were available to them as undergraduates. I missed a lot of opportunity because I was too introverted to interact with the professors. I shudder to think how I would have done had I simply not cared.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: tomanderson61, 7/28/2014 10:51:22 AM     (No. 9943042)

#9, look at some of the responses right here. There are statements that the article itself takes on and debunks! Which means one of two things.

Either they didn´t read the article, or they didn´t understand the article (I can guess why they cannot).

It´s simple. This hand wringing about "big government" is not what this is about. My dad HATES big government, always has. Same with me. No one in my family or friends are worried about big government when it comes to drugs. No one I have ever known is. That´s is because I don´t run with trash that uses drugs. Simple.

The argument is a smoke screen. Always has been. They´re users and enablers. Every last one of them.

The really precious one "I don´t condone the use of pot, and I don´t use it, but I don´t believe government should tell people what they cannot do!"

Preciously stupid.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: Ida Lou Pino, 7/28/2014 10:53:22 AM     (No. 9943043)

Pro-Prohibitionists always resort to horror scenarios to support their position - - but - -

- - the horror scenarios they describe are the ones which are happening now - - WITH Prohibition.

And yet- - they never see any irony in that.

What Prohibitionists really want to outlaw is stupidity and self-destructiveness - - as if giving big government tyrannical powers will accomplish that.

All drugs should be legal because choosing to ingest them - - or not to ingest them - - is our Constitutional right. If anyone wants to change that Constitutional right - - let them get congress and the states to pass a Constitutional amendment.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: tank, 7/28/2014 10:55:06 AM     (No. 9943048)

You either believe in the concept of self-government, as envisioned by the Founders, or you don´t.

Heed the words of Ben Franklin...

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Reply 17 - Posted by: Garage Logician, 7/28/2014 11:01:45 AM     (No. 9943060)

This reduction ad absurdum canard that suggests if we legalaze grass we might as well legalize all drugs is so tiresome. We could just as reasonably go in the other direction and insist that since we ban, mostly, marijuana, we should also once again prohibit booze.

These issues are about drawing lines and being practical. Prohibition failed because alcohol consumption proved to be too popular. We´re heading to the same endpoint with marijuana. I don´t expect we´ll ever legalize meth - too many crime and health problems.

Bottom line, we have to consider all the costs of legalizing any drug: health impacts, personal liberty, costs of law enforcement and incarceration, etc.

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Reply 18 - Posted by: Garage Logician, 7/28/2014 11:09:45 AM     (No. 9943071)

...reductio ! Darned spellbots!

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Reply 19 - Posted by: tomanderson61, 7/28/2014 11:11:27 AM     (No. 9943075)

So tiresome #17? What is so tiresome is people like you who CONTINUE to brink out the alcohol comparison, in response to an article that blows HOLES wide open in your point!

You didn´t read the article, or you didn´t GET the article. Man up and admit it.

The facts are the facts, so either refute my points--forget my points, refute the article, or stop with the repetitive, useless, three lines of reprinted pot-store pamphlet BS.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: tomanderson61, 7/28/2014 11:14:01 AM     (No. 9943078)

Only someone loaded would say:

"I don´t expect we´ll ever legalize meth - too many crime and health problems." in context of a pot discussion.

Yeah, no crime or health problems associated with pot!


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Reply 21 - Posted by: archbishopofaberlour, 7/28/2014 11:25:38 AM     (No. 9943091)

Colorado looked for a tax windfall from the legalization of marijuana. Denver homeless shelters are now overflowing with street people who´ve moved there to do nothing but smoke.

And there goes that tax windfall.


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Reply 22 - Posted by: tank, 7/28/2014 11:41:55 AM     (No. 9943108)

OK, read the article at the Hudson Institute. I´m sorry, but the guy is all over the place in his reasoning. The article confronts comparing alcohol use with marijuana use, and makes some useful points - it is difficult to compare the two from a public health perspective, I´ll admit, but the ´´researcher´´ does a few things to make this article less valuable.

The comparison of self-reported usage and dependency rates for alcohol vs. MJ. Then he , without saying how he got there, assumes that usage will skyrocket to high levels beyond the current 16% self-reported. Nice strawman he´s built there.

Discounting data that isn´t ´´recent,´´ unless, of course, they say what he wants, as he freely goes back to much earlier statements by ´´experts´´ that confirm his bias. If those ´´experts´´ many years ago were relying on studies performed many years ago, he´s already discounted these studies, yet he relies on the ´´experts´´ who interpreted them. OK, that´s so illogical it may be causing me physical pain.

Lastly, no discussion of the real effects Prohibition has had on this country, it´s citizen´s civil rights, and freedoms, and the corruption of law enforcement.

He also makes a lot of claims without citing his sources - not good for an article of this type, and it makes the conclusions suspect.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: Ida Lou Pino, 7/28/2014 11:48:35 AM     (No. 9943118)

A Constitutional right is a Constitutional right.

There is nothing in the Constitution which allows the federal government to outlaw anything that anyone chooses to ingest.

It doesn´t matter at all if something may be unhealthy or dangerous. The supermarkets and malls are full of unhealthy and dangerous legal items. It´s up to free individuals to make their own choices.

Giving the government tyrannical power is always a bad idea. Giving it tyrannical power over personal ingestion choices is an absolute horror - - as we clearly can see.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: lcomstaff, 7/28/2014 11:54:42 AM     (No. 9943128)

Thread getting unpleasant. Closing.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: Garage Logician, 7/28/2014 11:57:46 AM     (No. 9943135)

Some people need to mellow out and refrain from personal attacks.

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Thread Closed

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KSDK-TV [St. Louis, MO], by Jimmy Bernhard    Original Article
Posted By: LittleHoodedMonk- 9/27/2014 11:12:25 PM     Post Reply
Ferguson, Mo. – A police officer has been shot in Ferguson, Missouri. Police say the shooting occurred while the officer was on patrol at the Ferguson Community Center. Tim Zoll with the Ferguson Police Department told NewsChannel 5 that the officer has been shot in the arm and transported to Barnes Jewish Hospital. The officer is expected to be okay. The suspect is described as a black male with dreadlocks. The suspect is still at large. West Florissant Ave is shut down from Chambers Rd. to I-270 in both directions. No other information is available at this time. We will update this story when more information is

What´s a war without a code name?
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Washington Examiner (DC), by Charles Hoskinson    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 9/27/2014 3:48:05 AM     Post Reply
When the U.S. military strikes, its leaders often choose colorful code names for the operation that sometimes stick in history, like Operation Overlord or Rolling Thunder or Desert Storm. Not this time. The U.S.-led air campaign against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria doesn´t have a name. "I know of no plans at this point to name it," Pentagon spokesman Rear Adm. John Kirby said Thursday. Since World War II, almost every U.S. military operation, large and small, has had a code name. And that name usually sticks when veterans talk about the conflicts in which they participated, such

By Disrespecting Its Base,
GOP Risks Electoral Flop

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Investor´s Business Daily, by Rick Manning    Original Article
Posted By: Desert Fox- 9/27/2014 12:51:21 PM     Post Reply
Political pollsters have a tough job. They have to create formulas to determine if the person they are interviewing is likely to vote, and it is within this calculation that their reputations are made. Typically, those who are likely to vote in an off-year election are pretty set. They are the people who always vote in elections — with some motivated by specific issues. In a wave election, the number of those motivated by specific issues escalates, changing the electoral landscape as the candidates who are beneficiaries of this increased participation sweep to victory. The 2014 election is rapidly looking like something new

Corporate Business Abandon Ferguson –
Kmart Leaves, Looted and Destroyed
Quick Trip Store Still Undecided To Rebuild

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Conservative Treehouse, by Sundance    Original Article
Posted By: earlybird- 9/27/2014 1:01:09 PM     Post Reply
This Kmart store was looted during the August riots. This is a typical consequence by corporate businesses as they view “high risk” neighborhoods and communities. The operational risks, crime, lawsuits, et al, are too high to remain in business – and the actuaries recommend closure.In addition Gateway Pundit shares - On Wednesday, Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson told reporters the QuikTrip convenience store that burned down would rebuild in Ferguson. Not True. QuikTrip has no plans to rebuild in Ferguson, Missouri. A QuikTrip representative wrote The Gateway Pundit on Friday in response to Captain Johnson’s comments: “Thank you for asking.

ISIS planning attack on New York City,
Canadian terrorist claims: U.S.-based
fighters ´ready right now to make
an operation in your land´

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New York Daily News, by Meg Wagner & Corinne Lestch    Original Article
Posted By: Flyright- 9/28/2014 6:23:10 AM     Post Reply
A Canadian member of the loathed Islamic State claimed the group is plotting an attack on New York City — and will one day fly its flag over the White House. Days before Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi warned of terrorist plots on subways in New York City and Paris, a video emerged showing an ISIS shill named Farah Shirdon widening the scope of the threat. “God willing, we will make some attacks in New York soon,” he said in a video interview with Vice News last week. “A lot of brothers are mobilizing there right now.” He vowed that U.S.-based fighters are “mobilizing for a brilliant attack.”

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