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A Marine´s story: Women set up
to fail USMC’s most grueling test

ABC News, by Martha Raddatz*

Original Article

Posted By:NorthernDog, 4/21/2014 11:13:10 AM

At a petite 5’3’’, Sage Santangelo may not look like a combat fighter at first glance. But the female second lieutenant has never let that hold her back from pursuing her dream of becoming an infantry officer in the Marine Corps. Growing up, Santangelo found she was always able to keep up with the guys and enjoyed playing hockey on all boys’ teams. But when she joined the Marines, Santangelo found the playing field changed; she was segregated into female-only training units and as a woman, was relegated to less strenuous physical training than her male counterparts. And that’s why,

Comments:
*Richard Coolidge & Jordyn Phelps. With Brian Hartman, Alexandra Dukakis, Luis Martinez, Tom Thornton, Chris Carlson, and Mary Quinn
How would she have fared on Guadalcanal or Iwo Jima? The standards are very high for a very good reason.

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: BaseballFan, 4/21/2014 11:25:17 AM     (No. 9818775)

FTA: "...myself and 26 other men all failed at this point."

Well you´re in good company, LT.

She says the standards have to be tougher... then why didn´t you train yourself ahead of the course to EXCEED the standards that were in place at the time? Why just meet the minimum?

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Reply 2 - Posted by: Michaelus, 4/21/2014 11:26:04 AM     (No. 9818777)

I just read the details of the shooting at the Norfolk Navy base. The shooter managed to get onboard a warship and wrestle a sidearm away from the guard - who was a female. When the shooter was about to fire at the female a heroic sailor threw himself in front of her saving her life. The sailor died. Tell me one more time about women in the military. I dare you.

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R-G1
  
R-VAR_AD


 
Reply 3 - Posted by: fhancock, 4/21/2014 11:27:17 AM     (No. 9818781)

There is a reason...the strongest person in the world/the fastest person in the world/ the fastest swimmer in the world/the highest jumper in the world are all men...there is a reason no women are in the NBA/NFL/MLB/or NHL...it has to do with physical capability...if the young marine Lt cannot pass the test perhaps she needs to train herself harder and not blame the Marine Corps...

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Reply 4 - Posted by: zephyrgirl, 4/21/2014 11:28:54 AM     (No. 9818783)

If women can pass the same physical tests as men, they can have the job.

To her credit, Santangelo is arguing for raising the standards for women recruits so that they can pass the infantry test for men.



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Reply 5 - Posted by: TakeBackAmerica, 4/21/2014 11:36:23 AM     (No. 9818791)

Roger that #1: Our son took a Medical discharge as a Captain with 15 years service (four enlisted) after hip problems prevented him from doing those tests.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: Michaelus, 4/21/2014 11:39:02 AM     (No. 9818796)

If women pass the tests and met the standards they will still be women. Combat units will be distracted because men still have hormones and men will try to protect women - like the heroic Master at Arms in Norfolk did. Women who are captured by jihadboys are raped and we still, thank God, consider rape to be a particularly vile crime. There is no reason at all for the sexes to be mixed in the military. It is a Marxist wet dream and it gets people killed.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: KingBubo, 4/21/2014 11:42:06 AM     (No. 9818799)

I respect her desire and effort, but boys and girls are still different.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: 6079 Smith, W, 4/21/2014 11:43:08 AM     (No. 9818801)

Yeah, but Demi Moore could do it in ´G.I. Jane´, so we know it can be done.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: Pros7767, 4/21/2014 11:48:49 AM     (No. 9818814)

Women do not belong on the front lines for all the reasons stated by #6. Men, especially men in the military still believe their role is to protect women, contrary to all the liberal crap.

As a mother, I would not want my sons on the front line with females. I don´t care whether they can meet or even exceed the required standards. It´s a recipe for disaster.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: tipover, 4/21/2014 12:13:33 PM     (No. 9818848)

If all else is equal, size matters. Quote from a combat martial arts guru a decade or so back. A big, fast, skilled combatant will defeat a small, fast, equally skilled combatant in most cases. And that´s not considering the modern combat load (helmet, vest, ammo, rations, comm, ect.).

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Reply 11 - Posted by: HistoryBuff, 4/21/2014 12:18:00 PM     (No. 9818857)

Women in combat (or lack of) has been the stated reason that women are not subjected to registration for the (non existant) draft.

Make the women sign up too.



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Reply 12 - Posted by: Agent Orange, 4/21/2014 12:40:02 PM     (No. 9818873)

Years ago I had a heated discussion with a 5 foot tall, 90 pound female family member arguing that women should be allowed in combat. So I asked her a question. We are the only two in a fox hole or a revetment; I am severely wounded and she has to get me to medical help. She weights in at about 90 pounds and I at a hefty 240 pounds.

So I asked her, "How would you get me to safety?" She said I´d call for help. I reminded her that it was just the two of us and she needed to get me to safety, just her, no buddy else. She couldn´t or wouldn´t answer the question.

This is why I don´t want to see women in jobs that required physical strength. Be it a firefighter, combat infantryman, prison guards or a number of other jobs requiring brute strength. No matter what I said, it fell on deaf ears.

Women are built differently and in most cases lack the strength needed for a combat job. And there are things the enemy can do to a woman that would never happen top a man. And what would the natural reaction be to the men in the combat unit, subconsciously they are all looking after her well being and their combat readiness will suffer.

Cheers….MSgt, USAF (ret)

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Reply 13 - Posted by: ida Lou Pino, 4/21/2014 12:47:56 PM     (No. 9818876)

No woman in the world is as strong and athletic as a strong and athletic man.

So - - what´s your point, Sage?

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Reply 14 - Posted by: birddog, 4/21/2014 1:03:06 PM     (No. 9818887)

Gender "Equality" sez...the best "Person" for the job is the best person for the Job... you either believe in "Equality" or you are merely posing to. If any person can´t even meet the minimum standard they are never going to be the Best for the Job. The enemy doesn´t give a rip for your tender little ego. They will do their best to beat our Best.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: ROLFnader, 4/21/2014 1:06:59 PM     (No. 9818891)

You need look no further than the current banner on the LDot home page- the results from the Boston Marathon.

If you were in the foxhole and needed someone to bring a lifesaving item back from 5 miles away on foot, who would you send?

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Reply 16 - Posted by: Freeloader, 4/21/2014 1:07:04 PM     (No. 9818892)

There´s also a good reason the NFL doesn´t actively recruit "petite 5´3" females" as defensive lineman---It´s called the fundamental laws of nature, also known as "The Laws Of Physics."

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Reply 17 - Posted by: PeoplesRepublikNY, 4/21/2014 1:23:42 PM     (No. 9818912)

To the ongoing debate about our military´s social engineering and whether combat billets should be open to women, I would add this: America´s enemies do get a vote on the issue.

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R_DBL_B
  


 
Reply 18 - Posted by: dvc, 4/21/2014 1:30:08 PM     (No. 9818919)

Best wishes to any woman that can meet the physical requirements. However, lacking testosterone in their systems makes growing the large muscle mass required for many of the tasks that are normal and required to be a combat soldier almost impossible. This means that it will always be only a tiny fraction of women that can qualify.

There are plenty of jobs where physical strength is not a primary factor, and women can compete well in these. Pretending that you can do things which are physically impossible is just foolish. Telling children "you can be anything you want to" is a bit unfair, since some who may choose to be a physicist may not have the mathematical skill required, or some that choose to be a NFL lineman may not have the strength or the speed. Even huge bruisers are rarely quick enough to make the cut. In reality, one CANNOT be "anything you want" - but the limitations should be ability based, not arbitrary.

So - let anyone try, but test them fairly and set real standards that ALL must meet.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: HistoryBuff, 4/21/2014 1:33:01 PM     (No. 9818921)

# 12, the answer to your question:

Make two trips.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: velox, 4/21/2014 1:38:01 PM     (No. 9818933)

I personally feel women should not be I let into Marine fighting units that require strength and size.
They should not be firefighters or police either.
They put themselves and other at risk.
Now after saying that , I watched the national wrestling championships and could not believe how tough and good the women were. Not one guy in 50 could go up against some of them!


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Reply 21 - Posted by: msjena, 4/21/2014 1:40:50 PM     (No. 9818935)

And this is a bad thing because...? I really don´t want to live in a country where women are sent into combat--both for the women´s sake and the country´s.

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Reply 22 - Posted by: sw penn, 4/21/2014 1:44:00 PM     (No. 9818940)

The author is arguing for tougher front training
the prevent disappointment in the finals.

Washing out candidates
in the first week or in the last,
the Corps will still be accused
of being misogynistic
for not being able
to turn gymnasts into linebackers.

The whole exercise is a misapplication of resources.
If the Corps does not try to turn
male gymnasts into male linebackers,
they should not be trying to turn
female gymnasts into female linebackers.

One standard, one test.
Pass or fail.
Thus does Meritocracy reign.
No "Social Promotions"
to satisfy the chattering classes
who will never be tested,
or place their lives
directly into the hands
of those who have worked
so hard
to pass.


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Reply 23 - Posted by: OhMy, 4/21/2014 2:52:36 PM     (No. 9818996)

A long article but when will it dawn on this lady that men and women are different. That is why it is not fair to treat them the same. Men and women are different and most people are happy about it. A stubborn minority is trying to change this reality!

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Reply 24 - Posted by: melman, 4/21/2014 3:04:26 PM     (No. 9819010)

Marines are set to fail..I can´t help but think how this person would perform in the worst of environments.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: bobgray2, 4/21/2014 3:22:47 PM     (No. 9819026)

#15 It depends on the weight of the lifesaving item. There is a huge difference between being fast while wearing the equivalent of a speedo and a tank-top with the heaviest thing you carry is a 16oz water bottle, and having to haul 50 lbs of gear + weapons for 5 miles.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: MTGardenerview, 4/21/2014 4:51:56 PM     (No. 9819131)

Combat Marines are best described as Walking Winnebago´s, each wears or carries
8 lb Helmet
40-42 body armour
rifle with magazine
as many spare full magazines as available
K bar knife
Radio with batteries
extra radio batteries
Flashlight with batteries
Extra flashlight batteries
70 pound pack
Drinking water
after carrying this for a day or two said Marine has to engage the enemy,stand up to pee, go without showering for at least a week, convince the enemy of the following "USMC YOUR BEST FRIEND AND YOUR WORST ENEMY"
Have at it ladies I wish you luck

All the above comes from my son who recently retired after 23 years in the Marines





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Reply 27 - Posted by: Kerryman, 4/21/2014 6:42:45 PM     (No. 9819282)

I’ve followed this whole story since its inception. I know a lot about this and the whole concept is BS. It doesn’t take long to figure it out. I am an inactive Captain of Marines. I served in Viet Nam with the Wing. My son finished the Infantry Officer’s Course last September and is currently serving in Africa.
Here’s why:
1. The Headline should read, “Weaker Marines are set up to fail USMC’s most grueling test”. The Combat Endurance Test has been around for awhile, well before this experiment. It’s physical, mental and psychological. Please note lots of men fail it. Therefore, it wasn’t built to fail women.
2. The Infantry Officer’s Course, in a similar manner, was designed as well as a physical, mental and psychological challenge for the Marine Infantry Officer over a prolonged period. It was not meant to be a gender trap door.
3. Her appeal to be better trained by the Marine Corps to succeed is also garbage. They tried to change from a bent armed hang to three pull ups and experienced a 50+% failure rate amongst Woman Marines, it wasn’t practical. Marine Recruits and Officer Candidates have a finite length of service. Prolonging their training to achieve an artificial goal for an artificial purpose makes no sense. This would keep women as recruits and candidates to no real purpose depriving the Marine Corps of their service.
4. I mentioned my Son. He went to Texas A&M, was in the Corps of Cadets, joined the toughest outfit in the Corps of Cadets from the perspective of being physically challenging and became a member of the SEAL Platoon which involved even more physical challenges. In short, he prepared himself for his challenges at Quantico.

End Part I


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Reply 28 - Posted by: Kerryman, 4/21/2014 6:50:30 PM     (No. 9819291)

Begin Part II

5. His outfit sent five Officers to Quantico. The first two finished first and second in their TBS Class out of 270 Officers. The next two, one finished second in the class and the other successfully finished the Combat Endurance Test twice with stress fractures. However, it forced him to go Artillery when he couldn’t finish the rest of the Infantry Officer’s Course. It’s not just the CET, which is only the first day.
6. The fifth was delayed six months after a severe industrial accident where he was intermittently pounded by a powerful stream of water due to a water main breach and being electrocuted from when the water geyser contacted an overhead power line. All of this happened while he was in an eight foot deep hole while this occurred continuously for over twenty minutes. The point here is without all of the above conditioning, he likely would have died. He started TBS about three weeks ago after getting himself back into shape in five months. He just wrote back and said, “I can’t believe they’re paying me to do this!”


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Reply 29 - Posted by: Kerryman, 4/21/2014 7:26:59 PM     (No. 9819322)

Part III

The point that I am trying to make is that they got themselves ready. Physical Stamina is your greatest strength as you report for your first assignment. You are expected to be exceptionally conditioned as a new Second Lieutenant of Marines, particularly in the Infantry. It’s your ultimate defense as you learn to maneuver in a world of Staff NCO’s, NCO’s and Enlisted. It is they that are going to look to you for Leadership at crunch time. They have to have faith in you. As you perform your duties, lead in exercises and look after their needs, they will give you the respect but you have to earn it. The physical ability to “Pack the Gear” will always be your touchstone as a platoon leader. Hence, why it is emphasized during the Infantry Officer’s Course as well as the Combat Endurance Test.
LT Santangelo going through a second time serves no purpose as there is no Infantry Billet at the end of it. This is pure PC Politics at work and a waste of time and money. Marines are expected to be the tip of the spear and the point of the bayonet. By all means let the social experimentation proceed to satisfy the needs of the political generals. However, don’t try to force this on the combat Infantry. It would be a grave mistake.

Semper Fi


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Post Reply   Close thread 781079




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Daily Caller, by Mickey Kaus    Original Article
Posted By: Toledo- 7/15/2014 12:11:48 AM     Post Reply
“Trust” is for Con Men: The reaction to the border chaos in Texas has accomplished one thing: It has exploded the lie at the heart of current “comprehensive” immigration reform plans. The basic structure of those plans is a swap of a) near-immediate legalization for b) increased border security in the future. The appealing idea is to let current illegals stay while taking the steps necessary to prevent further waves. The lie is the assumption that, once current illegals get their legalization, pro-immigrant activists in both parties will continue to support the second half of the bargain, the increased security. The

Obama AWOL as border crisis worsens
31 replie(s)
Washington Times, by Editorial    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 7/16/2014 5:02:13 AM     Post Reply
John McCain, an immigration hawk. Who knew? Mr. McCain, the highest-profile Republican of the U.S. Senate’s “Gang of Eight” that came up with amnesty as the solution to the immigration crisis — and it truly is a crisis — is finally taking a hard line against President Obama for his encouraging the tidal wave of illegal aliens swamping the southwestern border. “There has to be a halt to this,” Mr. McCain thundered Sunday on CNN. “That’s what we want, and the best way to do that is for planeloads of these young people to be returning to their country of origin

The 5 Most Dangerous Guns in America
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Rolling Stone, by Kristen Gwynne    Original Article
Posted By: scottc- 7/15/2014 11:46:15 AM     Post Reply
Contrary to what those who defend the right to own high-powered assault rifles believe, not all guns are created equal. Due to a combination of availability, portability and criminal usage the following five types of guns are the country's most dangerous. School Shootings: Widely Reported Tragedies Since 2000 - Using firearm trace data from the ATF, as well as FBI homicide records, we determined the types of guns most often recovered from crime scenes and/or used in murders. The numbers are stark: According to the FBI's 2012 Crime in the US data, nearly 70 percent of homicides for which the FBI received weapons data involved the use

The media can no longer ignore
Obama and Hillary Clinton´s problems

30 replie(s)
Washington Examiner [DC], by Noemie Emery    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 7/16/2014 5:15:16 AM     Post Reply
It had to come sometime, and it came in one very bad week for the Democrats: that the many big problems with Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama finally grew too great for the press to ignore. Obama in his own different way is heading towards Nixon-like levels of weirdness, as, beaten down by the failures regarding his ventures, he appears to have quit his own job. A.B. Stoddard of the Hill says in effect he has stopped being president and chooses to live in a world of his own, shutting out the problems that have become overwhelming, giving dinners where he talks

Rove American Crossroads
in Mississippi Controversy

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American Spectator, by Jeffrey Lord    Original Article
Posted By: Desert Fox- 7/16/2014 8:43:14 AM     Post Reply
The headline in the Washington Post on June 4 was clear: Rove-backed American Crossroads won’t get involved in Cochran runoff Said the Post story the day after Tea Party favorite Chris McDaniel had defeated six-term Mississippi GOP Senator Thad Cochran in the first round of the state’s GOP primary: American Crossroads, a GOP establishment organization, has decided to shift its political focus almost entirely to the general election and will not be spending money in the likely runoff election to decide the Mississippi Senate nomination that was virtually deadlocked after Tuesday night. […] “Other than Alaska, we have completed our work on Senate primaries

Exclusive - Sessions Warns All of Congress:
Obama´s New Immigration Strategy ´Threatens
Foundation of Our Constitutional Republic´

28 replie(s)
Breitbart´s Big Government, by Matthew Boyle    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 7/15/2014 9:28:19 AM     Post Reply
Senate Budget Committee ranking member Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) has warned all of his colleagues in Congress that President Barack Obama’s new immigration strategy—his plans to legalize millions of illegal alien adults through executive power—could destroy America as we know it. “I write to inform you of a development that threatens the foundation of our constitutional Republic,” Sessions, Congress’s top immigration hawk, wrote in a letter that was hand-delivered to all 535 members of Congress on Monday and provided exclusively to Breitbart News. Sessions cites a recent report from the National Journal, in which reporter Major Garrett detailed how, despite the ongoing

Eric Holder: Americans Should Not
Be ´Color Blind,´ But ´Color Brave´

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Breitbart´s Big Government, by Charlie Spiering    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 7/15/2014 1:34:47 PM     Post Reply
Attorney General Eric Holder encouraged Americans not to forget race while working for justice and equality in their country. “As it stands, our society is not yet color blind -- nor should it be -- given the disparities that still afflict and divide us.” Holder explained, “We must be color brave, and we must never forget that all are made better and more prosperous if all are given equal opportunities.” Holder made his remarks during a speech at Howard University on Tuesday for the 50th Anniversary Celebration of the Civil Rights Act. “We must take into account not only the

Behind the scenes at the
Clinton White House

27 replie(s)
New York Post, by Geoff Earle    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 7/15/2014 5:04:05 AM     Post Reply
WASHINGTON — It was an enduring image of his presidency: a chastened Bill Clinton walking his dog while wife Hillary keeps her distance as the family leaves town at the height of the Monica Lewinsky scandal — but it was all part of a contrived public-repentance campaign, according to a new book. With Bill on the skids and his wife’s future prospects on the line, it was necessary for the pubic to see the president being punished, said Weekly Standard online editor Daniel Halper in his new book, “Clinton, Inc.: The Audacious Rebuilding of a Political Machine.” “They understood that


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