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Historians claim to have
recovered Holy Grail

New York Post, by Bob Fredericks

Original Article

Posted By:mitzi, 3/31/2014 6:30:59 PM

Spanish historians say they have discovered what Monty Python could not – the Holy Grail, the legendary cup Jesus supposedly drank from at the Last Supper. The Spaniards – Margarita Torres and José Ortega del Río – believe the 2,000-year-old vessel is in a church in León in northern Spain. The pair spent three years studying the history of the chalice and last week published a book, “The Kings of the Grail,” making their case. The onyx chalice, they explained, was concealed within another antique vessel known as the Chalice of Doña Urruca, which is located in León’s basilica of

I love these stories.


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Reply 1 - Posted by: schnapps, 3/31/2014 6:35:19 PM     (No. 9792234)

If they think it´s the one in the picture, they have chosen poorly.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: Rafter, 3/31/2014 6:37:28 PM     (No. 9792238)

A fun read...

published one day too soon, though.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: ruready?, 3/31/2014 6:37:41 PM     (No. 9792239)

Jesus was born in a barn, was so poor He did not have a place to lay his head. When He had to pay His taxes he had Peter get a gold coin from the mouth of a fish and was buried in a borrowed tomb.

He said of John the Baptist, "...what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear expensive clothes and indulge in luxury are in palaces."

Take a look at that chalice - it is certainly not in keeping with the rest of the life of the Savior.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: NYBruin, 3/31/2014 6:40:07 PM     (No. 9792243)

Bridge for sale!!

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Reply 5 - Posted by: Rafter, 3/31/2014 6:51:17 PM     (No. 9792259)

Deleted by Taste Police. LCom Staff.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: JediJerry, 3/31/2014 6:52:44 PM     (No. 9792260)

The goblet pictured is the goblet Snoop Lion drank from at his big party last night, and probably shared it with Fitty Cent. Look,
Jesus was a poor man. A carpenter. He was not a rich man with Onyx and jeweled goblets in his kitchen and cupboard. My bet is the cup He drank from at the last supper was of a simple design and hand made from wood. Long since decayed and gone.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: mitzi, 3/31/2014 7:02:34 PM     (No. 9792270)

The NY Daily News also has this story and it includes what was on that parchment:

The supposed Holy Grail was offered to King Fernando I, who ruled between 1037 and 1065, as a peace offering by the head of a Muslim kingdom within Spain, the historians said.

There are legends dating back to the 11th/12th century that Joseph of Arimathea was a tin merchant and brought the cup to Britain.

I´m fascinated with the origins of myths and legends. There´s an interesting book: When They Severed Earth From Sky. From Amazon:

Why were Prometheus and Loki envisioned as chained to rocks? What was the Golden Calf? Why are mirrors believed to carry bad luck? How could anyone think that mortals like Perseus, Beowulf, and St. George actually fought dragons, since dragons don´t exist? Strange though they sound, however, these "myths" did not begin as fiction. (snip) We, however, have been literate so long that we´ve forgotten how myths encode reality.

If you are interested in the Grail legends: http://www.timelessmyths.com/arthurian/grail.html#Joseph

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Reply 8 - Posted by: bkt23, 3/31/2014 7:04:00 PM     (No. 9792272)

Did you folks ponder that maybe the gold and jewels were added years later? The Catholic church is nothing if not good at gilding everything that stands still.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: crimea river, 3/31/2014 7:05:01 PM     (No. 9792275)

"If I´d only just stolen that cup, but n-o-o-o " ~ Judas

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Reply 10 - Posted by: mre, 3/31/2014 7:10:57 PM     (No. 9792279)

The problem with this idea is that it is highly unlikely that anyone would have specifically tried to save the cup that Jesus used at the Last Supper. Each member at the dinner would´ve had their own cup and there is no proof that the one Jesus used as the head of the table and passed around for them all to drink from would have been different. Depending on how the table was left or cleaned up afterwords, there is no reason to believe that the cup which was later identified as being Jesus´ was in fact the one that he used.

Plus, as Joachim Jeremias has written, it is quite likely that Jesus fasted from food and drink that night. If so, the cup he passed was not one that he had drunk from.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: Topic Thunder, 3/31/2014 7:13:30 PM     (No. 9792286)

If they receive life immortal then they gots it, if they explode in a cloud of dust then they don´t.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: Rafter, 3/31/2014 7:20:06 PM     (No. 9792294)

Goading, chatting , and total disrespect of others on this thread has you BLOCKED. LCom Staff.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: BigGeorgeTX, 3/31/2014 7:21:06 PM     (No. 9792297)

So we´re to believe that Jesus, on the day before his death on the cross, chose to drink from this heavily embellished chalice that looks as though it was created for the wealthy? While it´s possible, it doesn´t seem to be the sort of vessel he would choose to use.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: tennman, 3/31/2014 7:28:06 PM     (No. 9792305)

Sorry but no cigar. To my knowledge there´s no know description of the Holy Grail. For all we know it could have been a simple clay mug long lost that Jesus used.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: mitzi, 3/31/2014 7:33:20 PM     (No. 9792314)

#13: As #8 points out - gold/gems could have been added later.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: Bohallx, 3/31/2014 8:15:29 PM     (No. 9792363)

Regarding dating, the Grail stories cross paths with several other Early Medieval people ~ King Ad and St Gildas.

Gildas was born circa 500 AD. He lived in Scotland, Wales, Britain and Brittany and appears to have been an eyewitness to a great comet or other extraterrestial body on a near Earth path that is associated with the weather anomaly of 535AD to 541Ad that ushered in the Dark Ages.

So, date the Arthurian association with the Grail atthe 6th century ~ before the Moorish invasions.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: horacer, 3/31/2014 8:44:30 PM     (No. 9792402)

Until they find the grail shaped beacon I´m skeptical.

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Reply 18 - Posted by: Ida lil, 3/31/2014 9:02:33 PM     (No. 9792432)

It was said to be a silver vessel which could be very simple.
Since Mary descended from David the cup could have been a family heirloom but too plain to be stolen.
One discription in old history mentioned it may have had a face ingraved on it.
I also agree with those who dissmiss a heavely jeweled cup as the Holy Grail.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: mitzi, 3/31/2014 9:11:06 PM     (No. 9792441)

#16 - Joseph of Arimathea was a merchant who gave the tomb for Jesus. The story was first written down in about 11th centur7 Oral tradition before that.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: FormerDem, 3/31/2014 11:14:03 PM     (No. 9792551)

It is in Valencia they say. during the Roman persecutions, Valerian´s soldiers captured Pope Sixtus and several of the Roman deacons and put them to death, leaving only one of the seven deacons, Lawrence. He was told to bring the Emperor all the treasures of the Church. he stalled a few days and during those days sent away the Holy Grail, to Spain. For stalling and sending things away, he was sentenced to a particularly terrible death, being roasted over a grate. He joked about it while dying, and told them to turn him over, he was done on that side. For this joke he is patron of cooks. And the Grail has been in Valencia ever since. All popes up to Sylvester died martyrs, apparently.

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Reply 21 - Posted by: Nevadadad46, 3/31/2014 11:31:06 PM     (No. 9792565)

So, let me see if I understand this; The poorest of the poor, Jesus and his wandering pals, who were having big trouble getting enough money together just to rent a room and buy some wine and bread, found the wherewithal to order a cup for the "Master" to drink from, that would have probably cost more than all the buildings in the town they were dining in.

That would be like a homeless vagarant, walking into a Mc Donalds, buying a bag of fries with begged for dimes and nickles and eating it with a diamond studded Michael Jackson glove on his hand!

Apologies to any Christians who object to my comparison of Jesus to a homeless vagrant. Believe me, I know my Jesus- he would have actually been rather pleased with the comparison. Remember how humble he was. also remember well, he was really a homeless vagrant himself.

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Reply 22 - Posted by: wetenschapper, 4/1/2014 5:36:07 AM     (No. 9792668)

Coming late to the thread, but I wanted to agree with others that the gold and jewels are typical of the way medieval Christians decorated holy relics. Living in Europe, I´ve seen a good many such relics, and virtually all have been incorporated into elaborate, bejeweled, precious-metal reliquaries of one sort or another. It looks to me that the small, dark bowl in the center of the adornment is the actual "grail".

Now, whether this is the actual vessel of the Gospels is an entirely different question and one which will probably never be settled.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: Bohallx, 4/1/2014 6:02:13 PM     (No. 9793589)

#20 #22 ~ typical of the end of the Roman era in Brittany they decorated the dickens out of everything and then the Dark Ages descended and that was the end of that for a while, but the Knights of King Arthur (King Ad in the chronicles) were out looking for it ~ and that´s exactly when they were doing the looking.

So, the connection Valencia. When Valencia was conquered from the Moors the guys carrying the brunt of the battle were the same as they always were ~ imports from UP NORTH ~ from Brittany and Burgundy to a considerable degree.

I think what we have here is THEIR STORY OF THE GRAIL transported to Eastern Spain!

Meanwhile back in the Old Old Country, the nobles who had the license for Luxembourg were Bretons who sold everything and went on a Crusade. They came back with stuff from looting Constantinope that, for all we know, they already had lying about in Brittany.

BTW, there´s an ancient pardone leading from one town with my surname to another town in Spain with my surname ~ dates way, way, way back ~ at the other end that´s where the Bones of St James are reported to have lain since the 800s ~ you know it as Santiago de Compostela and I know it as Carvajal.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: BaseballFan, 4/1/2014 6:16:00 PM     (No. 9793602)

It´s important to remember that the Last Supper took place at the home of an unnamed man (see Matthew 26:18) so the cup would have belonged to whomever that man was. Who knows - maybe he was a wealthy man? Also, I´d read that the jewels and gold were added much, much later, and that the cup underneath all the bling is a very simple cup.

Regardless, I´m always fascinated by those who crave and insist upon having some physical artifact of Jesus´ existence.

“Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” Matthew 17:20

I´ve never really understood the obsession with the holy cup. Why did the plates and bowls get the short straw? What about the carafe that held the wine? *wink*

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Attorney General Eric Holder encouraged Americans not to forget race while working for justice and equality in their country. “As it stands, our society is not yet color blind -- nor should it be -- given the disparities that still afflict and divide us.” Holder explained, “We must be color brave, and we must never forget that all are made better and more prosperous if all are given equal opportunities.” Holder made his remarks during a speech at Howard University on Tuesday for the 50th Anniversary Celebration of the Civil Rights Act. “We must take into account not only the

Behind the scenes at the
Clinton White House

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New York Post, by Geoff Earle    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 7/15/2014 5:04:05 AM     Post Reply
WASHINGTON — It was an enduring image of his presidency: a chastened Bill Clinton walking his dog while wife Hillary keeps her distance as the family leaves town at the height of the Monica Lewinsky scandal — but it was all part of a contrived public-repentance campaign, according to a new book. With Bill on the skids and his wife’s future prospects on the line, it was necessary for the pubic to see the president being punished, said Weekly Standard online editor Daniel Halper in his new book, “Clinton, Inc.: The Audacious Rebuilding of a Political Machine.” “They understood that

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