"Dumbest idea I´ve ever heard." "Can´t happen." "Picket had a better chance." So say some of the right´s sharpest and most experienced political minds of the defund ObamaCare effort. Finding Beltway critics of the defund gambit is like finding oil in the Bakken Formation (in that critics are plentiful, not that the Beltway oozes unrefined black sludge under pressure). The defund gambit carries risk; there is no way around that. As long as Harry Reid and Barack Obama are willing to shut down the government rather than spare people from the added expense, reduced choice, and invasions of privacy that ObamaCare brings,
I like the way Ashby thinks on this one. When the shutdown arrives, the media will try and crucify the Republican Congress. I see no viable alternative. Obama keeps setting up his game of "chicken." We´ve all been waiting for the Republicans to stand up and show some guts. Those Republicans who won´t stand with us should be thrown out in the next primaries. Principle means something.
I think a deal has already been cut and all thsis ther stuff is political window dressing. The most we´ll get out of this is a year delay in the individual mandate which Obama will be fine with because the stupid exchanges aren´t ready anyways.
Nobody knows who the winners and losers are simply because Americans are disillusioned about everything and there´s no standout to blame.Obama´s media barrier is keeping the truth from millions. Like it or not,the ruinous things Obama is doing don´t count until the old media condemns something,it isn´t valid when the new media only condemns it.
What this man says about Social Security is right. Ask anyone who gets it what a joke it is, just ask them. It was just money that they government took- forcefully- out of paychecks, to waste to get themselves re-elected. period.
I know people who worked their entire lives, trusting the government to take care of their ´retirement´ (don´t very trust the government to do anything!) to get $500 or $600 a month!
That is what Obamacare will look like. The most laughably pathetic excuse for so-called "healthcare" on earth.
I find myself cheering on Cruz and company to defund, even if it shuts the govt down. I view an inactivated govt as a good thing.
That said, I think back to the sequester debacle, and shudder to think of what 0bama would do under a shutdown. I feel certain he would punish the elderly, the military, and everyone else but his union buddies. He would make sure it hurt everyone but his buddies, in order to gin up maximum political gain.
The damage done to the Republican Party because they don´t have the cojones to risk a shutdown in order to defund O´Care is worse than a government shutdown in the eyes of voters. Let´s not forget that an awful lot of Democrats don´t want O´Care either.
"long-arching media narrative that compromise is the holiest of all political rites. This standoff puts the eager-to-compromise GOP against the Democrat position of "No way. No how. Not even going to talk about it." "
Note this tool of the media to pressure Republicans to compromise, which is presented as a virtuous goal in itself. But the Dems never have to. Being open to compromise is certainly good, AS LONG AS the other party is playing by the same rules. The Dems have no intention of playing by those rules. That´s why the Republicans always seem to have the losing hand.
Further, the Republican establishment has resigned itself to playing under these lopsided conditions. They structure their opening position with the compromise already built in. The dems push for even more and the Republicans end up with garbage.
Let´s, for a change, lead with our principles. If, in the end, some compromise is needed, C´est la vie.
Rove Republicans have forgotten what it is to believe in things and fight for them. To them, it´s all a strategy game. They have forgotten what they were playing for in the first place. Dems long ago abandoned principled government. They are a cult of personality and whim.
Ashby is spot on, and #2 pretty close. One thing Ashby didn´t mention is that a shutdown will impact the Emperor´s dependency class more than self-reliant conservatives. There will be more pressure from the left to end the shutdown than from the right.
Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, and the others are calling the Emperor´s bluff: back them.
Under this plan it is Obama that is shutting down the govt with the threat of authorizing a debt limit increase ( unconstitutional ) as a backup. The house has the power of the purse. They should just stick to it and never agree to anything that includes Obamacare funding. The public will back them - they will win the following election with a huge majority and get over once for all this dread they have about being blamed for the shutdown. This crisis would not have gone this far but for Obama exploiting that fear of a shutdown by the GOP which leaves them powerless and unable to exercise the authority over the power of the purse that they do have. If they act like wimps they will loose everything. Use it or loose it!
I like the fact that this article exposes the media myth that the 1996 government shutdown was a loser for the GOP. There were many more legislative positives for the GOP afterwards than for Bill Clinton and the Dems. Could the Dems be afraid history will repeat itself with Obama´s legislative hopes being dashed? The only thing we lack this time is leaders with backbone and conservative principles.
At the very least, the Cruz gambit does a couple of things. It calls attention to the stinking pile of excrement that is the bill itself. Second, it demonstrates to the public, including the lo-fo´s, that there is one person in Washington willing to stand for hours in an attempt to do what is right. Finally, the more extreme the strategies used, the easier it will be to offer a compromise that will look small in comparison--suspending the individual mandate for awhile, for example.
obamacare will damage this country and citizens irreparably not the government shut down. obama will make sure to punish all the most vulnerable with the shut down but those are the very same people who will be hurt most by this ´law of the land´ and for far longer than the shut down would take. If it goes forward then I can eliminate one senior worry about which nursing home they will go to...they won´t make it.
If Obama can be discretionary then, and if he´s diabolical, look for him to cut the food stamp program. That would turn out the zombies to vote en masse for the Democrats in 2014. Our messaging must be spot on.
Agree with article completely. Another factor is the recent cry-wolf on the sequester. Everyone saw the regime predict a virtual apocalypse for that, and everyone saw it was a nothingburger. Only so many wolf cries the Obammunist can get away with.
In my 60 years I´ve never seen any ´gambits´ work long term.
For all the Reagan years and blistering defense you and I make, for ever Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingram, for every Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin there rise in opposition untold numbers of idiots, illegals, crooks, criminals and grifters.
I don´t think the Democrats can afford a government shutdown. Like the Sequester, it will have very little noticeable impact except there will be a bunch of furloughed government employees wandering the streets. It will probably save the taxpayers a lot of money. I am actually looking forward to it.
"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender..."
Churchill did not issue a call for debate over where to engage the battle for freedom. He called upon EVERYONE to engage the fight EVERYWHERE. Men of honor and principle seize EVERY opportunity to advance the cause of freedom, regardless of how it presents itself or who might get the credit.
I just heard Sen. Rubio state on the floor of the Senate that Republican senators are 100% united in their desire to repeal Obamacare, and only disagree about the way to do it. Well, here you go, Senators. The House provided you with a bill to defund Obamacare. The time for debate is over. Figure out how to get it passed in the Senate, and DO IT. We are watching you. Redeem yourselves. America is NOT a lost cause.
Shutting down the government accomplishes what exactly ? Still trying to figure that one , out. Other than boosting Democrats. Because the Republican numbers will still be the same before , during and after a shutdown. Actually they´ll be worse. Democrats control the Senate presently by 8, 46-54 with Republican appointee ( by Governor Christie ) Jeff Chiesa holding the spot until Democrat Cory Booker is elected in October . It will swing back to a 10 point Democrat Senate advantage when Booker is sworn in. Democrats also control the presidency. This is reality . The strategy on the far right , from Ted Cruz to Rush Limbaugh and the author , is that after a shut down, when Republicans are inevitably blamed and plummeting in the polls, somehow Harry Reid , Barbara Boxer, Chuck Schumer et al. and Barack Obama will decide to ride to their rescue and give Republicans everything they want. This is magical thinking and patently absurd. I think most of those selling this fantasy count on their supporters believing that Republicans are in the majority in the Senate. They´re either being purposefully deceptive or assuming their supporters don´t know the facts. The only way to effect change is to elect more Republican Senators in 2014 and 2016 .
The example given by Ashby showing election results from 1996 and 2012 is okay but does not go far enough to tell the full tale.
The GOP continued to hold the House for ten years, 1996-2006, so it´s even more obvious that the so-called "shutdowns" were only hyperbole that MSM Ho´s such as Wolf Blitzer at CNN tried to flack into a much bigger deal than they were.
Letting the MSM get away with this ridiculous propaganda would be like avoiding a sequester because the MSM called it a "fiscal cliff" etc
It´s only hype. Gummint is way too big and needs to be cut.
The best advice that GHW Bush could have passed along was not just his "annoy the media" slogan from 1992.... but even better, "Ignore the Media" (which is only DimWitz´ and NO-Bomber´s Ministry of Propaganda)... and try listening to the people who vote instead... a truly novel concept.
I´m sorry, my friends, but actually letting this get to the shutdown shouldn´t even be an option. The losers will be us, absolutely no question. I´m depending on Boehner to do some sort of series of CRs that funds this or that but not ObamaCare. We cannot stop ObamaCare this month in this session. That´s just a fantasy. But, it felt good to try, didn´t it. I mean that statement. I´m looking forward to 2014. That´s when we can begin the real process of getting rid of ObamaCare. I will send as much money as I can afford to every Republican running for office in 2014. Never mind which ones we think aren´t perfect. We need the numbers.
The author and the article are spot on. And the majority of your comments confirm and expand on this. However,...
We come to post #20, which opens with a quintessential Democrat talking point: "Shutting down the government accomplishes what exactly ?"
The post then proceeds to lay blame for a shut-down on the Republicans.
Yo, Rip Van Winkle! Everything that´s come out of the House last week and Ted Cruz´s mouth during his magnificent 21 hour performance glaringly highlights the following:
1) The Republicans have voted to keep the government running. The abomination known as Obamacare will, however, not be funded. 2) Harry Reid can, and will, shut down the government...if he and 51 Senate Democrats cannot get OCare funded. 3) Barack Obama can, and will, shut down the government.
Please note #20, that Reid and Obama are Democrats.
#24, we all know how it would actually take place, but we also know that it won´t matter that it was Reid and Obama who facilitated the shutdown. The shutdown would do nothing to defund Obamacare. Yes, we can make a Brownie point by forcing the Dems and Obama to pay attention to our demands, but ObamaCare will not be defunded in this current session. In conference, perhaps we can win some small victories, but having control of the House is not sufficient ammo to win this war at this exact time.
It has been reported that a large percentage of the, ´uninsured,´ to whom the dem pols frequently refer, are ILLEGAL aliens. Thus, by simply enforcing existing Immigration Law, much of that bogus rationale for 0bamacare could not be used as a tool/excuse for the dems´ audacious, obvious statist power grab. The statists´ entire agenda would fall apart. Congress should busy itself with efficiently addressing the ILLEGAL immigration of millions of ILLEGAL aliens who have sneaked into the country in stealth instead of manufacturing a problem which does not exist for purely devious political purposes.
Then they should address & correct specific problems, including tort reform, enabling the purchase of health insurance across state lines, etc.
One thing the author is right about is that Obamacare will not collapse on itself and it won´t just go away as some establishment types are saying. Obama and Dems will rewrite the law if need be (as they have already been doing) and dare the GOP to stop them, which they won´t. But they still will create an entirely new government dependent class of people, thus solidifying their power.
#20, I take you at your word on the "felt good to try" part of your post, and I share that sentiment. I´m less sanguine than you are about numbers being enough. Is John McCain helping? As I´ve said before, the problem with guys like McCain is that we don´t just get the seat; we get the mouth that comes with it.
McCain rose after Cruz to denounce him for comparing unwillingness to defund Obamacare to appeasement. That attack on Cruz got McCain some headlines but how did it help us, exactly?
Every hour on the hour the radio "newsperson" announces the dreaded "Government Shut-down". This has been going on for years since dingy Harry refuses to create a budget that would reveal the total cost of givernment waste. Anyhow, how many years can the American people listen to this without saying, "fine, just do it". The entire tale is like waiting for the bully to punch you in the nose, just do it and get it over with. The worst has happened, and now you can walk away with the rest of your face intact.
#25 may well be correct about us not having "sufficient ammo to win this war at this exact time."
Who ever said you only fight when you´re sure your going to win? Sometimes you fight because it makes the bad guys pay for what they steal. Sometimes you fight because it´s you or them. Sometimes you fight because it´s the right thing to do. Sometimes you fight even when it seems hopeless because without the will to fight all hope is lost. Sometimes you fight because it changes things "...on the beaches...on the landing grounds... in the fields...in the streets."
What I really resent are all the middle of the road moderates who advise us that we can´t win so we shouldn´t do anything.
Well, lay down and take the Obama medicine if you are so inclined, but I refuse. At least Cruz is fighting for this Country. Yeah he is using tough words that scare the timid, but at least the Senators will be On The Record with how they vote. And we will finally know who we need to target next year, right?
Reply 33 - Posted by:
mc squared, 9/26/2013 11:29:36 AM (No. 9537828)
I ask the folks who think Cruz was wrong, at what point should we try to reverse Obamacare? I´m an IT consultant working for an insurance broker. The phones are ringing off the hook with people who want to know how it affects them and how much it will cost.
Once these people are signed up (next month) and get their federal subsidy how will it be taken away?
So, if the old guard is afraid of the P.R. of shutting down the government to save the country from Obamacare, HOW IN THE WORLD WILL THEY NOT BE AFRAID TO TAKE HEALTHCARE FROM 30(or is it 50?) million "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS" IN 2015, PRAY TELL? The year before the general election? Are you kidding me? You really think that all those overpaid consultants will advise this? NO WAY.
STAND UP NOW! THIS IS A DEBACLE and they all know it.
Cruz is the Man of The Hour... and The Day... and This Whole Week...
Cruz is a HERO... McLameBrain and NO-Bomber add up to ZERO.
NO-Bomber the TAARP Baby is just Nero with a "G"... He has shut down the White Hutt to normal taxpaying citizens... He is wrecking our economy... And he may try his hand at shutting down the Gummint...
The Afro-Firmative Action POTUS-POS is about to pay a huge price... It´s gonna backfire!
McCain is full of it with his sanctimonius bull about Germany and his fathers. All Cruz was saying was that like in Germany when people refused to stand up to Hitler and appeased because they thot they couldn´t win. Even now the same appeasers are failing to stand up to Obamacare because they think it is unwinable. So shut up McCain. You backstabber. Why didn´t you come to the floor and confront Cruz....because maybe you knew what would happen....you and Schumer both could have come to the floor but you didn´t. Benedict Arnold was a great American hero at one time....then something happened. McCain you are a pathetic Senator. You have no honor today because you backstab those that voted you in office from Arizona. We have got to win this battle against our enemy the Republican establishment before we win any battle against the Democrats. You are our enemy McCain, Peter King, Graham, Rove, Jeb Bush, and more.
Predictable that our thin skinned suspects sputter w/umbrage whenever a spade is called a spade i.e. correctly labeling cowardice as appeasement. Reminds of our American Tory appeasers of 1776, consumed by fear of the Crown. Then when the going got tough, they went off to Canada.
It´s bad enough knowing all democrats are, in real life, Marxist communists (even though fellow communists in the old press and the old media keep totally silent about that loaded word, communism). It´s worse though, to realize that except for a few outspoken, always chastized, republican electeds like Ted Cruz, damn near all other republican old guys, are sell-out closet communists, too. As Rush keeps saying, there´s a "base" of the conservative republican party linked to the Tea Party in great numbers, but they are TOO SILENT in media exposure. The New Media is growing, internet, talk radio, documentaries, and some fine books, and it is growing. The answer: everybody needs to shout out, act like Ted Cruz, be noiser than Rand Paul, be more aggressive than Mitt Romney, be more of a spokesperson than that nice Texas governor whathisname, hear from Trump more often, get RON PAUL back in the public eye with his EXCELLENT TEACHINGS, get the entire Breitbart staff out on the street ON CAMERA, like Andrew use to be ON THE STREET, get the NRA to have a hundred regional spokesmen, not one, insist that Fox TV News GET RID OF FRUITCAKES MC CAIN, MITCH LINDSAY KING ROVE …. Get tough, take our language back, call all these guys what they ARE destructive communists (not nice fake ID liberals) Quote Andrew Napolitano, Michelle Malkin, Mark Levin, Mark Steyn, Tom Sowell, Walter Williams, get loud, stop worrying about your dumbed down disappointingly stupid friends, go ahead and ofend them with the truth. We are the greatest country in the history of the modern world and we deserve to keep it improving daily, not going backward into the depths of socialist, communist, fascist Europe, old Italy, Stalinist Soviet Russia. We can SEE it does not work, IS NOT working.
When the Pelosi-Reid-Obama troika triumphantly celebrated cramming through the ACA (Affordable Care Act) over majority sentiment, they crowed that this was the president´s signature achievement and ACA soon took on the name of its creator, ObamaCare. Though not one of them, nor any of the Democrats in the Senate who voted it into law uni-partisanly had read it, they all assured us that we´d grow to really, really like it. Boy, were they wrong.
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The historic IT disaster known as the Obamacare web site has been of intense interest to me, since I´ve been a Senior Software Engineer for decades, and I have personally participated in, witnessed, and reported on (as a technology reporter) a number of IT disasters. But even so, the size of the Obamacare web site catastrophe on October 1 still takes my breath away. When I first heard, shortly after October 1, that there was 500 million lines of code in Healthcare.gov, I quickly rejected that figure, because it´s impossible.
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Fresh off the disastrous rollout of Obamacare which Senate Majority Leader Reid and (now former) Speaker of the House Pelosi rammed through Congress using unconventional procedures and with zero Republican support, his extremist wing compelled him to make yet another ham-handed move which predictably will hurt his party in the long run more than it will help it. Since the issue has for the most part been poorly explained in the major media, let me explain what has happened and why I think this will prove a major miscalculation.
A great deal of attention has been focused on the political fallout that Democrats in Congress will face because of their support for ObamaCare. Beyond video of Mary Landrieu in 2009 saying just what Obama was saying about people being allowed to keep their old health plans, surely the video of Nancy Pelosi that we had to "pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it" ought to be part of any Republican´s campaign against Democrats in the congressional midterm elections.
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