A Message From Lucianne  



Home Page | Latest Posts | Links | Must Reads | Update Profile | RSS | Contribute | Register | Rules & FAQs
Privacy Policy | Search | Post | Contact | Logout | Forgot Password | Search Using Google

Abraham Lincoln: hero or tyrant?
Telegraph [UK], by Daniel Hannan

Original Article

Posted By:Attercliffe, 8/12/2013 7:34:38 PM

You might think it odd to put the question. Abraham Lincoln is one of that tiny number of statesmen who, in the public mind, have ascended above the political plane. [Snip] (I realise I’m rather behind the curve here--like a lot of people with children, I now get to see movies only on longhaul flights). Daniel Day-Lewis perfectly captures the ponderous frontiersman’s manner to which Lincoln’s contemporaries attest. Watching his portrayal, I was reminded of the way Karl Marx described his contemporary: ‘One of the few men to become great without ceasing to be good’ (possibly the


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: Bohallx, 8/12/2013 8:02:10 PM     (No. 9470658)

Even before there was a Confederate States the Southerners were extending federal power into the business of Northern states with their Fugitive Slave Act.

That was passed in 1850 by a Democrat Congress.

The same Democrats crushed freedom of the press when it came to poor Americans with their prohibition of the use of the hectograph or the mailing of documents produced by that method.

Confederate revisionists know very well they struck the first blow; that the Confederacy was elitist at the core; institutionally hated the poor ~ white and black; and was no friend of liberty.

  Click Here if you Like this Comment

    65 persons like this.

Reply 2 - Posted by: VAfreedomluver, 8/12/2013 10:45:56 PM     (No. 9470874)

The tragedy of Lincoln is that he set into motion the centralization of government that is leading this country into an authoritarian nightmare, but that was the furthest thing from his intent.

  Click Here if you Like this Comment

    37 persons like this.




Reply 3 - Posted by: Nevadadad46, 8/12/2013 11:30:37 PM     (No. 9470911)

Lincoln did everything possible to preserve the Union, including destroying the Constitution that founded it. Read the history and you see I am right. Everything after Lincoln was easy- Income tax, Social Security, Welfare- all the things the Constitution forbids- all they did was follow Lincoln´s example.

  Click Here if you Like this Comment

    34 persons like this.

Reply 4 - Posted by: 49 Ford, 8/12/2013 11:59:07 PM     (No. 9470934)

This sort of thread is very distressing, because it brings out those who want to fight the Civil War all over again.

So #2, in your view what should Lincoln have done? You say he set into motion the centralization of government, and so forth. Well, how else was he to defeat an armed rebellion by 11 states which had raised formidable armies?

No #3, Lincoln did not destroy the Constitution. The southern states did that, with their insistence on enslaving other human beings on the basis of their skin color and national origin. And Lincoln is only responsible for what happened on HIS watch. He is not responsible for the Great Depression, FDR´s policies or anything else that happened 70 years after his death. For better and worse, the generations of Americans that came after Lincoln have chosen their own fates.

  Click Here if you Like this Comment

    61 persons like this.

Reply 5 - Posted by: southron, 8/13/2013 12:32:21 AM     (No. 9470966)

Will someone give me a reliable historical source to confirm the writers claim that Lincoln offered to end slavery by compensating Southern slave owners but the Southerners turned it down.

  Click Here if you Like this Comment

    50 persons like this.

Reply 6 - Posted by: MissMann, 8/13/2013 2:54:43 AM     (No. 9471026)

Slavery was an abomination, but other countries were able to put a stop to slavery without slaughtering hundreds of thousands of its citizens.

The states were a union by choice and had the right to leave that union by choice. Preserving this union by trashing its founding principals is nothing to celebrate.

Lincoln was the worst president, bar none, and it is distressing that he is revered in any way. I wish people would think this through rather than parrot the myths they´ve been fed all their lives.

  Click Here if you Like this Comment

    48 persons like this.

Reply 7 - Posted by: JimJr, 8/13/2013 10:34:13 AM     (No. 9471517)

The real question is not whether slavery was and is wrong, there are no honest arguments for the practice of slavery. The question is is the Constitution, the Union, a suicide pact? Do the people of a State have the same right to peacefully leave the union as they have to join it?

  Click Here if you Like this Comment

    50 persons like this.




Reply 8 - Posted by: jglas, 8/14/2013 11:21:29 AM     (No. 9473507)

Lincoln was fixated on preserving the union. I´m not sure I´m in agreement that is a goal worthy of a war costing 600,000 lives. We were individual colonies before we were united states. If there had not been slavery in the southern states to provide a moral cause for Lincoln to insist on conducting the war I think we would have just broken into two countries differentiated mainly by slave holding or not slave holding. Eventually slave holding would have been abolished in the Confederacy and the two nations would probably have merged again. Morally the civil war was a right thing to do but it cannot be denied it set a no secession precedence that really flies in the face of the spirit of the constitution and limits states rights today.

  Click Here if you Like this Comment

    21 persons like this.

Post Reply   Close thread 747648

Below, you will find ...

Most Recent Articles posted by "Attercliffe"


Most Active Articles (last 48 hours)

Most Recent Articles posted by "Attercliffe"

Stop the bluster. We should hit
Putin in the wallet - it´s the most
sensitive part of his anatomy
Mail on Sunday [UK], by Dominic Lawson    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/3/2014 12:14:52 PM     Post Reply
The Russian bear--exemplified by President Vladimir Putin--is wounded. As we know, animals are then at their most dangerous. In the diplomatic arena, there are many ways to deal with such a situation, but the least recommendable is bluster. That, unfortunately, is the one employed by the West’s notional leader, Barack Obama. [Snip] Not surprisingly, Putin disregarded this amorphous threat. Last year, Commander-in-Chief Obama had declared that if Russia’s ally President Assad of Syria used chemical weapons against his own citizens, it would cross a ‘red line’; and then demonstrated he had no desire to enforce it, by passing the buck

Pipeline protesters arrested at White House
Associated Press, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/3/2014 12:07:09 PM     Post Reply
WASHINGTON—Police arrested hundreds of people who strapped themselves to the White House fence on Sunday to protest the proposed Keystone XL oil pipeline. The protesters were mostly college students who participated in a peaceful march that began at Georgetown University and ended outside the White House. They chanted "climate justice now" and carried signs with slogans such as "don´t tarnish the earth" in an effort to persuade President Barack Obama to reject the pipeline. They say it will worsen global warming. Protesters were passionate but quite orderly. Police were waiting for them with buses and vans to speed the process.

US urges Israel to stop assassinating
Iranian nuclear scientists and focus
on the Palestine peace process
Mail on Sunday [UK], by Ryan Gorman & Associated Press Report    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/2/2014 11:57:31 PM     Post Reply
US officials have reportedly told Israel to stop killing off Iranian nuclear scientists. Israel Moussad spy agancy has supposedly taken out at least five top Iranian nuclear experts in an attempt to slow the country’s nuclear program and continues to do so despite recent agreements reached to end the country’s nuclear ambitions. [Snip] The Moussad operatives were able to get away with the killings as a result of an extensive network of safe houses within the Islamic state, ‘although several Iranians who may have helped the Mossad were arrested and executed,’ CBS claimed. An unidentified US official disclosed the program




´Weak´ Obama is blasted for his
´laughable´ response to Putin as
both parties say President is
letting Russia push him around
Mail on Sunday [UK], by Associated Press & Ryan Gorman    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/2/2014 12:52:30 PM     Post Reply
Senior US politicians from both parties criticized President Barack Obama´s threats to Russian President Vladimir Putin and called for immediate sanctions if troops are not immediately withdrawn from Ukraine [Snip] McCain was quick to criticize the president´s threats in an interview with the Daily Beast, calling them ´laughable´ and partly blaming former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for thinking she and Obama could ´reset´ relations with Russia back in 2009. ´She believed that somehow there would be a reset with a guy who was a KGB colonel who always had ambitions to restore the Russian empire,´ said McCain. ´That’s what

Mail on Sunday in line for a bumper
haul of British Press Awards:
Paper nominated for Newspaper of
the Year and Front Page of the Year
Mail on Sunday [UK], by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/2/2014 12:31:00 PM     Post Reply
Mail on Sunday journalists have received an impressive 15 nominations at this year’s Press Awards. The paper is shortlisted as Newspaper of the Year, while You magazine is vying for Supplement of the Year. Our biggest story of the year--exposing the sex and drugs shame of former Co-op Bank chairman and Methodist minister Paul Flowers--is nominated for both Scoop and Front Page of the Year. The news editors, reporters and photographers who brought in that story, along with a host of other amazing exclusives, have been nominated as News Team of the Year, while the Sports Team, under Fleet Street’s first

Health chief slams statins: Millions face
terrible side effects as prescription escalates
Daily Express [UK], by Lucy Johnston    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/1/2014 8:50:05 PM     Post Reply
Leading doctors are demanding an end to the widespread prescription of statins, warning that one in four Britons will soon be at risk of terrible side effects from the controversial heart drugs. Those sounding the alarm include Dr Kailash Chand, deputy chairman of the British Medical Association, who suffered “awful” muscle pains while taking statins and claims that plans to prescribe them to millions more adults will “only benefit drug companies”. [Snip] Under guidance to be published later this month by Government drug watchdog the National Institute for Care and Health Excellence (NICE), the threshold will be cut to a

Mother-of-two tries for 3 MONTHS
to enroll in health exchanges as
shocking waits of over an hour
continue to frustrate callers
Associated Press, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/1/2014 8:17:38 PM     Post Reply
For those trying to enroll through online health exchanges, help has long been advertised as just a phone call away. Yet the challenge in some states has been trying to get a call through at all, never mind the multiple transfers once contact has been made. Long wait times of an hour or more have been commonplace in some states, primarily those running their own health care exchanges. [Snip] ´If I had to use one word, I´d use ´´frustrating´´,´ said Jacki Manley, a stay-at-home mom in the western Maryland town of Keedysville, who has been trying since mid-December to enroll

´Military intervention would be the
beginning of war´, says Ukraine as
its armed forces are put on full
alert and Obama calls Kremlin*
Daily Mail [UK], by Kieran Corcoran    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/1/2014 7:40:43 PM     Post Reply
Ukraine has put its armed forces on full combat alert and warned Russia that military intervention would lead to war. The warning comes after Putin was granted permission from his parliament to send Russian troops into the country. [Snip] Ukraine´s new interim president Oleksander Turchynov warned his country was threatened with a ´military invasion and occupation´. Blasting the move, Mr Obama spent 90 minutes on the phone telling his Russian counter that sending forces into Crimea is a clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and warned of consequences. He added that the United States will suspend participation in




The flying bum!
300ft-long ´airship´ unveiled in
Britain is the world´s longest aircraft
Daily Mail [UK], by Ellie Zolfagharifard    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/1/2014 11:59:39 AM     Post Reply
At 302ft, it is the world’s longest aircraft. That’s longer than the Airbus A380 airliner and almost as long as Big Ben is high. But that is not the HAV304’s main claim to fame. It is a hybrid aircraft – part plane and part airship. It is also almost 30ft (8m) longer than the airlift cargo aircraft Antonov An-225, which was until now the longest aircraft ever built. The giant aircraft is being displayed at Cardington in Bedfordshire in the only hangar big enough to accommodate the 113ft (34m) wide and 85ft (26m) high beast.

Three-week wait to see your doctor:
Millions of patients are denied a
prompt appointment to see their GP
Daily Mail [UK], by Sophie Borland    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/1/2014 11:30:49 AM     Post Reply
Millions of patients wait as long as three weeks to see their GP, a Daily Mail survey reveals today. Only one in three manages to secure a same-day appointment, despite Government promises to make such slots routinely available. One in five cannot get a consultation within seven days. The survey suggests that two million adults wait between two and three weeks to see a doctor and half a million suffer a delay of three or four weeks. Leading GPs say the figures reflect their struggle to meet the demands of a growing population with ever larger numbers of pensioners.

Ex-Gitmo Detainee Turned ´Human Rights
Activist´ Charged with Terror Offences
Breitbart London [UK], by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/1/2014 11:20:26 AM     Post Reply
Police have charged former Guantanamo Bay detainee and self-styled ´human rights´ activist Moazzam Begg with Syria-related terrorism offences. West Midlands police have accused the 45-year-old --who founded the CagePrisoners organisation following his stint in Guantanamo Bay--of providing terrorist training and funding overseas terrorism. He is due to appear at Westminster Magistrates Court in London today. [Snip] In 2010, the human rights campaigner Gita Saghal was suspended from Amnesty International for questioning the group´s links to Begg´s organisation. She subsequently resigned, stating:

Farage: ´Make Patriotism
Respectable Once Again´
Telegraph [UK], by James Delingpole    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 3/1/2014 11:11:17 AM     Post Reply
Britain is threatened by the "largest migratory wave in its history"--and its three main parties are doing nothing about it--warned UKIP leader Nigel Farage, as he put immigration at the heart of his party´s campaign strategy for the May European elections. In a characteristically rousing speech at the party´s Spring conference at the south Devon seaside resort Torbay, received with a standing ovation by the party faithful, Farage said: "It is not extremist to talk about immigration: it is the responsible and right thing to do." Since 2004, he noted, there has been a "doubling of youth unemployment," and a

Most Active Articles (last 48 hours)

Wounded Warrior Blasts Obama
for Lack of Leadership in
Fiercely Worded Open Letter

64 replie(s)
Independent Journal Review, by Kyle Becker    Original Article
Posted By: Pluperfect- 3/2/2014 5:40:32 AM     Post Reply
Senior Airman Ret. Brian Kolfage vented his feelings to President Obama in a strongly worded letter that doesn’t mince words: Dear President Obama, My name is Brian Kolfage, I’m a triple amputee and retired Air Force veteran who was severely wounded on September 11, 2004 in Iraq. I nearly died in a war that most of your colleagues supported overwhelmingly, including the two presidents who came before you. Many citizens may not agree with waging war in Iraq to free the oppressed Iraqi citizens, but it’s something that warriors like myself have no control over. I joined to serve my country and to



What was that Obama-Putin conversation like?
58 replie(s)
Power Line, by Paul Mirengoff    Original Article
Posted By: Dreadnought- 3/1/2014 11:18:34 PM     Post Reply
As John noted below, President Obama spent an hour and a half on the telephone with Vladimir Putin discussing the Russian invasion of Ukraine. What was the conversation like? We can probably get a good sense of it by considering the account of President Bush’s conversations with Putin set forth by Peter Baker in his excellent book about the Bush presidency, Days of Fire. It’s well known that Bush and Putin got on well at first. But when the relationship soured, Bush became exasperated by his talks with the Russian bully. Putin seemed to delight in debating Bush. But according

Bill Clinton pictured posing with two
PROSTITUTES at star-studded
charity event in his honor

41 replie(s)
Daily Mail (UK), by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 3/1/2014 11:28:28 AM     Post Reply
Bill Clinton´s controversial couplings has reached a new level after he was pictured spending time with prostitutes at a recent charity event. The former President was in Los Angeles on Thursday and photographed with two female attendees who work as legal prostitutes in Nevada. Identified as Ava Adora and Barbie Girl by TMZ, both of the women are known to work at the Bunny Ranch brothel near Carson City. (Photo) Clinton, who infamously faced impeachment after having an affair with intern Monica Lewinsky while he was still in the White House, is seen grinning ear to ear

Obama Skips National Security
Team Meeting on Russia, Ukraine

40 replie(s)
Weekly Standard, by Daniel Halper    Original Article
Posted By: Dignitary Protection- 3/1/2014 4:28:37 PM     Post Reply
A White House official emailed some reporters to say that President Obama´s team met today to discuss the ongoing situation on Ukraine. It appears President Obama did not attend. "The President´s national security team met today to receive an update on the situation in Ukraine and discuss potential policy options. We will provide further updates later this afternoon," reads the full statement. [Tweet] According to Time magazine's Zeke Miller, Obama skipped the meeting. "Obama did not attend the meeting, but WH official says he has been briefed by Susan Rice and his national security team," says Miller.

Exclusive: Lois Lerner does
about-face, will give Hill
testimony on IRS scandal

33 replie(s)
Fox News, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 3/2/2014 10:34:34 AM     Post Reply
Published March 02, 2014 • FoxNews.comFacebook1 Twitter2 Gplus0 FILE: May 22, 2013: IRS official Lois Lerner is sworn in on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C.AP Former Internal Revenue Service official Lois Lerner, a central figure in the IRS scandal, will appear before Congress Wednesday after refusing to testify last year on the matter, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., said Sunday. Issa, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, told “Fox News Sunday” that Lerner’s lawyers said she will testify before his committee, after saying last week that she would not. “It’s going to be a good, fact-finding hearing,”

Obama fires verbs at Russian tanks
30 replie(s)
Daily Caller, by Neil Munro    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 3/1/2014 12:44:59 PM     Post Reply
President Barack Obama fired a few verbs across the front armor of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s tanks, in a rushed statement just after 5 p.m. on Friday. The statement was made as Russian forces — including attack helicopters — appeared in peripheral parts of the Ukraine that are largely populated by ethnic Russians. There’s no evidence that Obama wants to get involved in what may become a war between the Ukraine and Russia. He did not threaten any significant retaliation if Russian force attack nor did he offer military aid to the Ukraine. He announced that Vice President Joe Biden — but not

President Obama’s foreign
policy is based on fantasy

30 replie(s)
Washington Post, by Editorial    Original Article
Posted By: Dreadnought- 3/2/2014 10:23:27 PM     Post Reply
FOR FIVE YEARS, President Obama has led a foreign policy based more on how he thinks the world should operate than on reality. It was a world in which “the tide of war is receding” and the United States could, without much risk, radically reduce the size of its armed forces. Other leaders, in this vision, would behave rationally and in the interest of their people and the world. Invasions, brute force, great-power games and shifting alliances — these were things of the past. Secretary of State John F. Kerry displayed this mindset on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday when he

Ukraine calls up reserves, readies
for potential combat with Russia

29 replie(s)
Reuters, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: nota bene- 3/2/2014 6:20:55 AM     Post Reply
KIEV/BALACLAVA, Ukraine - Ukraine mobilized on Sunday for war and called up its reserves, after Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened to invade in the biggest confrontation between Moscow and the West since the Cold War. Ukraine´s security council ordered the general staff to immediately put all armed forces on highest alert, the council´s secretary Andriy Parubiy announced. The Defense Ministry was ordered to conduct the call-up, potentially of all men up to 40 in a country that still has universal male conscription.

Russia Says Its Building Naval
Bases in Asia, Latin America

28 replie(s)
The Diplomat, by Zachary Keck    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 3/1/2014 2:05:30 PM     Post Reply
A senior Russian defense official has announced that Moscow is looking to build military bases throughout different countries in Asia and the Western Hemisphere. According to RIA Novosti, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Russia is looking to build military bases in Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, the Seychelles, Singapore and several other countries. “The talks are under way, and we are close to signing the relevant documents,” Shoigu said, according to RIA Novosti. The newspaper noted that “Moscow currently has only one naval base outside the former Soviet Union – in Tartus, Syria, but the fate of this naval facility is uncertain

Legal ´standing´: Obama´s
executive branch escape hatch

28 replie(s)
Los Angeles Times, by Editorial    Original Article
Posted By: Pluperfect- 3/2/2014 5:43:06 AM     Post Reply
President Obama´s proclaimed strategy to "bypass Congress" — most conspicuously his broad rewriting of the Affordable Care Act — has given unusual prominence to a fairly arcane legal doctrine: standing. Standing is what is preventing a potential blizzard of litigation against the president´s unilateral decrees, and ironically, it´s a doctrine liberal jurists have long decried. To challenge the government in federal court, it isn´t enough to simply believe that the government´s conduct is illegal or even unconstitutional. Federal courts can hear only specific disputes about the law as applied to particular people. To be heard in court, a person must have

Kerry says ‘Russia is going to
lose’ if Putin’s troops continue
to advance in Ukraine

28 replie(s)
Washington Post, by Jaime Fuller    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 3/2/2014 1:43:54 PM     Post Reply
Secretary of State John F. Kerry went on the Sunday shows to talk about Ukraine, and he called the Russian troop intervention in Crimea "an incredible act of aggression." “He´s going to lose on the international stage," Kerry told David Gregory on NBC´s "Meet the Press." "Russia is going to lose, the Russian people are going to lose, and he´s going to lose all of the glow that came out of the Olympics, his $60 billion extravaganza." Besides speaking on "Meet the Press," Kerry also spoke about the situation in Ukraine on ABC´s "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" and CBS´s

Obama speaks with Putin by phone,
calls on Russia to pull forces back
to Crimea bases

25 replie(s)
Washington Post, by Karen DeYoung    Original Article
Posted By: JoElla Bee- 3/1/2014 6:29:29 PM     Post Reply
President Obama spoke for 90 minutes with Russian President Vladimir Putin as the United States, its top European partners and the U.N. Security Council spent the day trying to fashion a response to the rapid escalation of the Ukraine crisis after Russian troops took up positions throughout the autonomous republic of Crimea. Obama expressed “deep concern,” the White House said, and called on Russia to withdraw its forces back to its bases in Crimea and “to refrain from any interference elsewhere in Ukraine.” Putin appeared to have given little ground, according to a readout of the conversation from his office.


Post Reply   Close thread 747648

Home Page | Latest Posts | Links | Must Reads | Update Profile | RSS | Contribute | Register | Rules & FAQs
Privacy Policy | Search | Post | Contact | Logout | Forgot Password | Search Using Google

© 2014 Lucianne.com Media Inc.