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Some Mormons Search the
Web and Find Doubt

New York Times, by Laurie Goodtsein

Original Article

Posted By:supersid, 7/21/2013 3:50:33 PM

In the small but cohesive Mormon community where he grew up, Hans Mattsson was a solid believer and a pillar of the church. (Snip) But when he discovered credible evidence that the church’s founder, Joseph Smith, was a polygamist and that the Book of Mormon and other scriptures were rife with historical anomalies, Mr. Mattsson said he felt that the foundation on which he had built his life began to crumble. Around the world and in the United States, where the faith was founded, the Mormon Church is grappling with a wave of doubt and disillusionment

Unfortunately for Morminism, it is recent enough that its claims can be so easily debunked. No wonder the muslims are so terrified of education - imagine of more muslims learned that Mohammed was an epileptic child rapist mass murderer.


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Reply 1 - Posted by: jeremiah29_11, 7/21/2013 4:09:15 PM     (No. 9435466)

Joseph Smith, who was a Mason, took a brotherhood philosophy and made it a religion. I´ll probably be castigated for this comment but I really don´t care. Faith in God/Jesus is what´s needed..not religion.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: enemyofthestate, 7/21/2013 4:19:46 PM     (No. 9435476)

Liberals will never be satisfied until all institutions are destroyed except the state. Some of their favorite targets are Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, Christians in general and the Boy Scouts. Why is it OK to criticize or even attack these insitutions, but not, say, Muslims or Jews?

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Reply 3 - Posted by: yuban, 7/21/2013 4:31:22 PM     (No. 9435489)

There is way too much religion in the world and not nearly enough Christianity.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: shamus, 7/21/2013 4:35:14 PM     (No. 9435492)

Others search the web and find porn.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: Straitpath, 7/21/2013 4:51:47 PM     (No. 9435507)

I know the good, the bad and the ugly about the Mormon Church. I stay in the Church because of my personal spiritual experiences.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: 4justice, 7/21/2013 5:09:14 PM     (No. 9435525)

Religion is man-made...spirituality is the path to God.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: Hybernicus, 7/21/2013 5:45:26 PM     (No. 9435554)

There are disgruntled people in every religion, philosophy, and walk of life - and even at the New York Times and in Obamaism.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: ladymar, 7/21/2013 5:50:51 PM     (No. 9435563)

This piece is highly suspicious. If this Mattson guy really was a solid believer and a "pillar" of the church, there´s no way he wouldn´t have already known that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. It´s common knowledge.

Smith wasn´t happy about it and resisted it, but the Lord knew the scourge that was to come and knew that the Mormons would need to raise a righteous posterity quickly in order to survive. He instituted polygamy and commanded Joseph to set an example for the other members.

And the historical "anomalies" are some of the most powerful "proofs" of the validity of the Book of Mormon. Science has since found many "plates" of gold and brass bearing historical records. They´ve found remains of the horses that science said came with the Spaniards - but these are much more ancient as referenced in the Book of Mormon.

Anomaly doesn´t mean falsity

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Reply 9 - Posted by: Spidey, 7/21/2013 5:54:02 PM     (No. 9435566)

Every religion has idiosyncrasies that are hard to swallow.Wat about the 12th Imam riding down the mountain or whatever happens on Muslim doomsday.

The real point is how a person conducts themselves as a civilized human.If it takes a religion to keep a person straight,what difference does it make if things don´t always add up.

Saw a few months ago someone claim Jesus was born a 1000 BC. I mean how is that possible without Mr. Peabody´s wayback machine??

If this country was all mormons we´d have a $16 trillion surplus instead of debt.

Fear of retribution from Budda keeps a lot of far easterners in line.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: spincut, 7/21/2013 5:55:30 PM     (No. 9435569)

New York Slimes is afraid Romney wants to run for president again, so you´ll be seeing a lot more articles like this. Also, Bain Capitol. Not paying taxes. Killing employees.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: Mattmusson, 7/21/2013 6:00:00 PM     (No. 9435573)

Nearly 100 yrs ago a Utah senator raised his voice about animals and plants in the book of Mormon that did not exist in the new world.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: ruready?, 7/21/2013 6:41:33 PM     (No. 9435608)

Not a Mormon, but will defend them if the NYTs is doing the criticizing. Mormons have done just a little bit more to enrich our nation´s culture than communists and Marxists.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: Rumblehog, 7/21/2013 7:45:18 PM     (No. 9435654)

“The Roman Catholic Church has had 2,000 years to work through the hiccups in its history,” said Terryl L. Givens, a professor of English, literature and religion at the University of Richmond and a Mormon believer. “Mormonism is still an adolescent religion.”

That´s the old, "But everyone else does it!" defense. The Mormon heresies are much more egregious than the ignorant decisions and actions of past leaders of the Roman Catholic Church.

Roman Catholics at least adhere to the Old and New Testaments of Scripture, as well as Doctrines of the Trinity, Virgin Birth of Christ, and Unlimited Atonement. Where they´re wrong is in believing some guy in a robe reciting Latin mumbo-jumbo while sprinkling water on a baby´s head, gives it Salvation. While Catholics do believe Jesus Christ´s work on the cross was for all mankind (TRUE), they erroneously believe that the only thing a person has to do after Water Baptism is to live a moral life, go to Mass, confess, do what the Pope says, and St. Peter will let them into heaven. Scripture is very clear that while the potential for Salvation was provided by Christ on the Cross for all mankind, it is not given to each human being (Doctrine of Depravity). God does not interfere with human volition. Each person must use his/her own free-will to believe in order to receive Salvation.
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:8,9

Mormonism is a polytheistic cult and the world´s first "hybrid religion", full of lies, myths, secret rituals, and historical distortions. Btw, Brigham Young put Joseph Smith to shame when it came to polygamy.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: Seniorchief, 7/21/2013 7:51:56 PM     (No. 9435661)

I´m a Roman Catholic and don´t particularly agree with Mormon theology. But I´ll tell you every Mormon I´ve had the privilege to know, has exhibited a high degree of honesty, great work ethic, and solid family values. They put many of my fellow Catholics to shame in the way they conduct their lives. So I refuse to get on the bandwagon with those who want to bash the Mormons.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: corndoggies, 7/21/2013 8:01:25 PM     (No. 9435664)

My husband loaded cantaloupes at an Amish farm yesterday and could not get over how many kids they had and how hard each and every one of them was working. I told him the Amish and the Mormons will be the saving of this country.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: richwill, 7/21/2013 8:14:41 PM     (No. 9435671)

NYT= Do not read, loaded with natural fertilizer.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: birddog, 7/21/2013 8:45:46 PM     (No. 9435699)

If this "salon" had an upvote/like button, #5 & #14 would have one each right now.

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Reply 18 - Posted by: bamboozle, 7/21/2013 9:19:22 PM     (No. 9435731)

Some people read the New York Times and find lies.... There, fixed the headline for you.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: realrep, 7/21/2013 9:29:10 PM     (No. 9435744)

Thanks #13

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Reply 20 - Posted by: radrelic, 7/21/2013 10:14:21 PM     (No. 9435791)

This madness called Mormonism.. Religion with a path to spirituality but it sure inspires passion.

I can´t understand the militaristic passion of a crusade against another religion--it really looks silly to me. Get riled over a nothing? The -poster wrote:

"Mormonism is a polytheistic cult and the world´s first "hybrid religion", full of lies, myths, secret rituals, and historical distortions. Btw, Brigham Young put Joseph Smith to shame when it came to polygamy."

The apostolic church was persecuted by the Jews in Rome for same sin "Polytheism" and the debate led to the Nicean code? It is amazing to me when Protestants take this stance. They kept the Nicean Trinity which needs the blanket of being a mystery in order to understand God in all His forms present at the Baptism of Jesus. Why not stick to straight Catholicism if those tenets are so written in stone.

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Reply 21 - Posted by: radrelic, 7/21/2013 10:16:41 PM     (No. 9435795)

How can Mormons be heretics to traditional Christianity and yet be kept as outsiders?

Well...This isn´t the worst religious conundrum in the world. I study the religions of the world and find Zorastrian wearing white undergarments and the Buddhists get a certain meditation perfected to where they can feel God but have no idea that the Tao is the Mormon God.

Could it be that to some has been given one part and to others another and all will fall into place at his second coming? Could be, I like it but Joseph Smith never taught that--just a good way to spirituality and communing and getting in tune with God.

So why bother with trying to do whatever trying to do about the "mormon problem". The national solution didn´t work last time, the more persecution, the more growth--kind of like the apostolic church? To each his own. I´ll keep Mormonism and the Godhead of three working as one and be a Catholic who believe that if I ever lapse. I like the new Pope and hope the world doesn´t get jealous of his goodness.

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Reply 22 - Posted by: Lalo, 7/21/2013 10:56:07 PM     (No. 9435833)

Gosh, one would think Mormons and Catholics sacrificed puppies or something. To quote the late great American philosopher Sly Stone, "Different strokes for different folks" - and another one: "Can´t we all just get along?"

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Reply 23 - Posted by: hoosier-luger, 7/21/2013 11:31:29 PM     (No. 9435866)

The Book of the Mormon supposedly dates from the 1800´s, yet it is written in Elizabethan English. Did Joseph Smith talk this way? Does God require translation from the original language(s) only into Elizabethan English?

Where are the golden tablets? Could the wagon that is described as carrying them do so without breaking an axle? Or is this some miraculous light-weight gold?

Does it bother anyone that none of the places described in the Book of the Mormon have ever been found. Yet, nearly every location described in the Old Testament is known?

What did people do for all the Truth before God created Mormonism? Who invented the device of praying for the salvation of the pre-Mormon dead -- i.e., as a means of avoiding this philosophical bottleneck. Who could possibly fall for this stunt, unless they had been bludgeoned into accepting the psychological dictatorship of their LDS parents?

Does God really care if anyone wears magic underwear? Why would the Creator of the Universe care about something as mundane as this fashion statement?

Why does the LDS church dis-"seal" family members who want to join another church? Is this the human freedom that God has given to mankind as a free moral agent and made in his image? If you go against the totalitarian system of Mormon behavior control, will you lose your job, your wife, your family, your parents, your children?

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Reply 24 - Posted by: hoosier-luger, 7/21/2013 11:32:01 PM     (No. 9435868)

The early Mormons were not polygamists? Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were not a Mormons. The pope is not a Catholic...

Why Utah -- in the middle of nothing? Could it be for the same reasons as Jim Jones in Guyana -- isolation and control?

And, it is Satan that causes the free human mind to ask questions of a religion founded by a semi-literate, who know well, very well how to start, enforce and propagate a mind-control cult.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: mean Gene, 7/22/2013 12:05:23 AM     (No. 9435894)

We just moved to Utah from CA.
There is a local TV show about Ex-Mormons.
There is an actual, ´´Leave the LDS Church,´´ day in Utah.
And it got plenty of TV news coverage.
Only about 50% of Utah is LDS.
But the state is the beneficiary of so many LDS values.
There is little unemployment.
There are more babies than you could ever imagine!
There is a healthy tax base.
The people are also quite health-oriented.
And freedom is highly prized in Utah.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: LoneVoice, 7/22/2013 12:05:24 AM     (No. 9435895)

I am not mormon.
But I don´t understand the hatred directed toward them.
I have found them to be consistently honest and decent people.
If this country were run like the LDS church we really would be running a 17 trillion dollar surplus.
If we´re gonna judge people and religion by results, I don´t think too many "Christians" have an honest reason to condemn Mormons.
To hear some people talk you´d think Mormons strapped bomb vests onto children and beheaded Christians.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: Texan1stCavDad, 7/22/2013 12:18:57 AM     (No. 9435906)

I am not a Mormon nor do I share their faith. Yet I lived among them in Utah during my first 2 years of college. Hardworking, honest, and welcoming to a simple Southern Baptist boy like me; not wishing to insult my Catholic friends, but I would trust a common Mormon more than any Roman priest.

Secondly, I take offense when any media outlet attacks a specific faith, though I´m having a great deal of trouble with Islam right about now.

I haven´t seen a lot of Mormons stoning women, decapitating infidels, shooting girls in the head followed by a letter explaining why, blowing up American & coalition soldiers and innocent people in Boston, flying planes into towers and promising to destroy the US and drive the Jews into the sea.

Defend the Mormons from attack, in this country where faith is protected. If not, your faith and freedom will be next. If you don´t believe it, ask any elderly Jew.

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Reply 28 - Posted by: tonx, 7/22/2013 3:02:55 AM     (No. 9435952)

By their works ye shall know them.
NYT vs. Mormons.
Let´s see..... which is a growing, vibrant community of happy Saints and which is a dying rag of a newspaper gasping out snarky invective and half truths towards anything that smacks of the wholesome, God-fearing tradition that made our nation great.
If this nation´s future is going to "hang by a thread" it sure as heck isn´t going to be the New York Times that saves us - I´ll put my money on the Mormons any day of the week!

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Reply 29 - Posted by: MattMusson, 7/22/2013 8:43:21 AM     (No. 9436194)

#21 - Buddhists don´t marry their dead relatives.

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Reply 30 - Posted by: mitzi, 7/22/2013 8:52:54 AM     (No. 9436215)

I fail to see why it matters to the NY Times what someone else believes.

I´m waiting for the day when we have "separation of church and media."

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Reply 31 - Posted by: Guillermo Sepulveda, 7/22/2013 11:15:37 PM     (No. 9437536)

Some honest and open-minded posts from decent individuals and some bigoted and ignorant ones as well. #13 takes the cake with old, rehashed junk and with intellectual honesty that could fit in a thimble. Read a book and listen to someone besides your myopic minister.

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Reply 32 - Posted by: hoosiergirl71, 7/23/2013 12:30:54 AM     (No. 9437598)

Any Spiritual Belief should welcome scrutiny.
As far as I know, Christianity is the only Belief that so many were willing to die for and the only one which can claim that their God died in their place to set them free from the just penalties of sin. Eternity is a very long time and it is important to find the truth about how and where you will spend it.
(Yes Muslims can choose to die as part of their belief, but not because they would rather die than give up their faith. It is because they are taught to do it for themselves to gain something.)

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Breitbart Big Peace, by Tom Fitton    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 4/17/2014 6:45:16 AM     Post Reply
When it comes to tracking the cost of Obama family vacations, there are two primary challenges. First, the Obamas are prolific jet-setters, so there are many details to track. Second, the Obama administration, clearly embarrassed by these lavish and frequent family vacations, stonewalls the release of records at every turn. But we have been relentless in pursuit of this information. Our attorneys file the lawsuits and make our case, and our investigators pour through pages of records and crunch the numbers. And the information we’ve uncovered – information that would otherwise remain under lock and key – shows that the

Atlanta Braves flooded with Hank
Aaron hate mail: He’s a ‘s*****g’

31 replie(s)
Washington Times (D.C.), by Cheryl K. Chumley    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 4/15/2014 3:23:19 PM     Post Reply
Hank Aaron’s recent comments about the need for America to realize that racism is still very much alive and thriving — only now due to those who wear “neckties and starched shirts” rather than KKK hoods — has sparked an angry backlash and many fans are turning the tables, calling the baseball legend himself a racist. “Hank Aaron is a s*****g piece of [expletive] [racial slur],” one man said in an email to the Atlanta Braves’ front office, one of the teams Mr. Aaron used to play for, CBS News reported. “My old man instilled in my mind from a

White is not right: Campus admins ask
for help weeding out white people

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Daily Caller, by Robby Soave    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 4/15/2014 7:47:18 PM     Post Reply
Western Washington University sent a questionnaire to students asking them for advice on how the administration could succeed at making sure that in future years, “we are not as white as we are today.” The question notes that WWU’s racial make up does not perfectly reflect the nation at large, and asks students to consider strategies that other universities have used to focus on skin color as the paramount indicator of a student-applicant’s worth. The president of WWU has stated that his explicit goal is to reduce the white population on campus, according to Campus Reform. “I’ve said before and I’ll say it

Elizabeth Warren whines about coverage
of her fraudulent Indian claim

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Daily Caller, by Patrick Howley    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 4/16/2014 9:54:52 PM     Post Reply
Democratic Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren wrote in her forthcoming book that she was “hurt” and “angry” by 2012 reporting on her fraudulent claim to Native American heritage. “What really threw me, though, were the constant attacks from the other side,” Warren wrote in her book “A Fighting Chance.” “I would almost persuade myself that I was starting to get the hang of full-throttle campaigning and then — bam! Out of left field, the state Republican Party, or the Brown campaign, or some blogger, would launch a rocket at me,” Warren wrote, adding, ”I was stunned by the attacks.” This reporter (blogger?) reported extensively

Progressive Insurance
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National Review Online, by Victor Davis Hanson    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 4/15/2014 10:08:10 PM     Post Reply
How do you ensure that you won’t be ostracized, denounced, or fired if you are a media celebrity, captain of industry, or high public official? For some, sexist banter is certainly no problem. Stand-up comedian Bill Maher called Sarah Palin a c–t and a tw-t, but suffered no ill consequences. David Letterman joked on air that Sarah Palin’s 14-year-old daughter had had sex with Alex Rodriguez during a New York Yankees game. There was no downside to that either. President Obama tosses around “sweetie” as he wishes. No problem with that. No one believes Barack could be condescending to women.

Former US president joins
opposition to Keystone XL

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Houston Chronicle, by Jennifer A. Dlouhy    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 4/16/2014 10:32:12 PM     Post Reply
WASHINGTON — Former President Jimmy Carter joined fellow Nobel laureates Wednesday in opposing Keystone XL, insisting that approving the pipeline would trigger “more climate upheaval” around the globe. In an open letter to President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry, Carter and the nine other Nobel Peace Prize winners bluntly warned the leaders: “Your decision on the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline will define your climate legacy.” The missive, published as an advertisement in Politico, represents the first time Carter has taken a position on the $5.4 billion project and makes him the first former president to come

Why is US Senator Harry
Reid so concerned with
a local Nevada rancher?

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Fox News, by Wayne Allyn Root    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 4/16/2014 9:37:12 PM     Post Reply
I live in Las Vegas. I live and breath Nevada politics. Something is very wrong. Something smells rotten in the Nevada desert. And Senator Harry Reid’s fingerprints are all over it. I am of course referring to the Bundy Ranch siege. This was a dispute between a Nevada ranching family with rights to the land in question for 140 years and the BLM (Bureayu of Land Management). The government claims they haven’t paid grazing fees for 20 years. The result was a government assault on the ranch- including snipers with assault rifles, SUV’s, helicopters, airplanes and over 200 heavily armed troops. No

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