As usual, the Republican Party is snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. With a President in the midst of seven serious scandals and facing a declining public approval rating, the Republicans have a tremendous opportunity to make serious gains in the upcoming mid-term elections. Unfortunately, Republicans are in the midst of angering their base and daring grassroots conservatives to form a new party. In fact, former Alaska Governor and 2008 Republican vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin is already considering such a move.
Comments: If the House passes any kind of "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" or if they do not change their nomination process there will be a third party.
OP, I agree that the House must not, and will not, pass a great big comprehensive immigration reform bill. That was always the problem with the Gang of Eight´s effort. When anything is labeled "comprehensive" in gov-speak, it´s loaded with junk. As for the nomination process, I assume you mean the GOP primary system? I agree there, too. We all lament that the early states have too much influence. I wish the country could be divided into sections, each section voting on a single day. Then, at least, the late primary states could have a bit of a say.
It really is amazing that the Establishment Republican are so out of touch with us home folks. They are so DC-ized they are more in tune with Dems and media and liberals. There can be nothing worse than salt that has lost its flavor. We sent Republicans to Congress to represent us and protect the Constitution. They have lost their way and need purging. If this causes problems then so be it. If we keep on the way we are going there is not hope of stopping the destruction. E.R. will never change course because they are happy, contented, perk puffed up, and sated by power. The home folks are forgotten or scorned. Typical of small minded, selfish, me first men and women. I helped elect the Rep from my area. He is a huge disappointment and only does Boehner´s bidding. He does not visit the district anymore. We are forgotten. Turn them all out. Rove is one of the ´faces´ of the ER but he is really just a money man. I hope Super Doners stop giving him power.
The party should hold their (CLOSED) primaries in the states that best supported them in the previous cycle, i.e. a state that went 50% Republican holds its primary after a state that went 55%. Thus Republicans chose their candidate and the order changes each cycle.
I do wonder if this isn´t the time for a third Party. The prospect was ludicrous until now, but, like secession, a third Party may be the only thing that might work.
Facing facts is critical. One indisputable fact is that the GOP is not doing a good job of what it usually stands for. The GOP has gone Washington", which is exactly what conservative voters didn´t want and hoped was gone with this new breed of Congressmen.
But the Senate Republicans ought to know better. Saving Rubio´s butt for 2016 isn´t as important and showing some stones yesterday -- to distinguish us from Democrats.
Another fact is that third Parties usually lose elections for us. So where do we go and what do we do? Do we acquiesce and do what Democrats do or do we somehow gather all the conservatives together and threaten to form a third Party, hoping that the ossified Old Guard Republicans will get frightened?
I don´t know the answer, but I do know that if you took a poll of Republicans and Independents, you´d get an unusually high number of people who think a Third Party is the only way to break this vicious cycle of Republicans who betray us when they get to DC.
When our country desperately needs water we continue to be offered Coke or Pepsi as the only options. We can tell the difference, but they are basically the same thing and will give the same results. We need less government control, and less pork stuffed into bills, but they continue to play that game - even our new star Rubio! I recently switched to independent after 40 years of voting for the Republicans.
We really must dump them all and vote the term limits that the senate and house would not vote for themselves when they limited the years that a president could serve. After 12 years they all turn into zombies who "group think" what their "leaders" tell them to think. They want power and money and when they play the game, they get both.
It´s time for a new RNC, including replacement of the national committeemen at the state level.
Very easy to do ~ use the original method. Form a top end committee, invite states to send delegates to nominate a presidential candidate.
That´s how the dregs of the Whigs were routed while functioning elements were kept operating.
But that´s only part of the problem. We have too many leiders who come from the B-school wing. They are well grounded in running marketing surveys, but they seem to have no concept of what political theory is about and how to win elections!
They are weakest in ´party building´ ~ they actually imagine you pick a candidate who goes out and attracts people.
In reality you get people who´ll vote for your candidates (on the basis of economic, religious, civil rights, geographic, educational, age, sex, etc inclinations/relations/membership) then select candidates who meet their expectations.
Voter registration drives are ALL. Without them you are left sitting there imagining the Democrats won in 2008 and 2012 with massive ~ INCREDIBLY MASSIVE ~ record breaing ~ vote fraud never seen before in any country in any time.
The Dems saw what happened to them in 2004 so they went out and found 13 million more Democrat voters for 2008. That made up for the dead guys ~ baby boomers are dying like flies now folks! And gave them an absolute margin for victory.
Reps did something similar from 2008 to 2012 with 5 million new Republican voters, but it wasn´t quite enough. I seriously doubt going third-party will give us as easy a victory as simply getting 5 million more Republican voters! Chopping off the head, though, is advisable. Get rid of the RNC and it´s agents in the state committees.
After resisting such a move for several election cycles, I´m there now. I´ve had it with the "Democrat-Lite" nature of the Republican Party now.
We need to move to create a third party dedicated to the principles of the founders of this country. I really don´t care if that means we´re going to lose for a while. We´ve been losing and most certainly going to continue to lose with our Democrat-Lite lineup anyway.
No, it´s time. Make the move. Create a new party fully committed to: Constitution, small government, fiscal responsibility and constraint, protection of our borders, and national defense. There it is. The winning formula.
Any third-party effort will ensure Dem victories for the rest of our lives. Realistically, the choices are Republican or Democrat. No matter her tease, Palin is not going to start a new party. You who are holding to that slim reed are doomed to be disappointed. All the whining and caterwauling about what has been done wrong and how unhappy we are accomplishes nothing at all. We can fix the primary schedule, we can field better candidates, we can vote for or against the ones we prefer or dislike. We just have to get up and do it rather than wasting time lamenting our shortcomings.
The article states the dilemma well. The republican establishment has been getting the votes of the republican base without giving them any representation for views and policies which would greatly benefit the nation as a whole. The base which is larger than the establishment is used and abused. They support the party out of horror for what the rats will do and show far more loyalty to a party that despises them than it deserves. This cannot go on. The establishment are exploiting the situation for personal gain at a huge cost to the nation. How can they be regarded as patriots? They are ultimately destroying the nation which is the foundation of prosperity for all. It is much easier to destroy than it will be to rebuild. They are playing with fire and we all get burned.
Someone explain to me why the nomination process has to start in Iowa and then NH. I doubt there are too many real conservatives in those states. Why not start in Texas which has a much larger more conservative Republican party? The last two nominations were over by the time Texas voted. It was frustrating. Just scrap the old nominating process and start somewhere else. But the GOP won´t do that and it may not matter. If Speaker Boner caves which I think he will and the Senate amnesty bill is passed in the House I will leave the GOP forever. Not that they care.
We have the third party, it´s called the TEA PARTY, the problem is that the Northeast Liberal Republicans just can´t be bothered to get off their keisters and march. And won´t vote for a newcomer endorsed by the very people you espouse to be; freedom loving TEA Party Patriots.
And of course there´s the McCain Repubs that think they are reaching across the isle. There is no hope for you.
It´s the Repubs who have drunk the kool aid of hate poured against Palin that are killing our republic, plus all those pius evangelicals who´s deification doesn´t stink and then head for the recliner to watch ABC.
A third party may require a generation or more to establish itself, as it did UKIP, but, if that´s what it takes, so be it. And, while it´s growing, this new party will have to learn to apply Alinsky´s rules to neutralize its opponents. We need not only to retake our government, we need to retake our culture which means multiple bastions of left-wingers will have to be engaged simultaneously, vigorously and relentlessly. The bastions? Here are just a few: our nation´s professoriat, the MSM, Hollywood and a slew of special interest polities that influence and, sometimes, control legislation. Did I forget to mention the GOP? The motto for this new party? It´s exactly the same as the motto of today´s Democrat Party. If you´re not with us, you´re against us.
Something is wrong, seriously wrong, at the top of the party. The thinking seems to be to ape the Democrats and practice identity politics, all the while absorbing all the blows and slanders the Left cares to deliver and steadfastly refusing to fight back. There is no fire in the belly, no determination to win. Now we learn that Mitt Romney even considered quitting the presidential campaign! How can we ever win with candidates like that? We have no great orators, no firey speakers, no commanding personalities. Not unless we count John McCain, Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham, John Boehner, Karl Rove, etc. These men bore people to death. They may be great at something; they are not great at public speaking. Something about Republicans always seems to suggest a kind of constipation. They are painful to watch and listen to.
I don´t know about a third party. Though I fully appreciate the urge, I am doubtful of the result. Better, it seems to me, to sweep with a broad broom the fossils and barnacles and lifers and bores from the current Republican party, inject new blood, recruit some members who can and will fight, who are capable of articulating and defending Republican values, and whose idea of winning election does not consist of being Democrats. Is this possible? Can the party be purged and reformed? Only if voters demand it. If we remain stuck with the current crew we might as well forget about winning the White House in our lifetimes - quite possibly ever.
This thread is wonderful and thoughtful. Don´t usually read Canada Free Press but what is happening is truly shocking. I too have had it with Republicans. Perhaps the time is right for a Libertarian, that is if Rand Paul does not become too close to the Republican leadership. He could also appeal to some liberals who fear foreign entanglement and abuse of our Constitutional rights by this administration.
The time has come. The Republican Establishment has proven it has no interest in changing, cannot win elections against weak opponents, and its current direction is to be nothing more then a toll both on the highway to this great country´s journey to destruction.
Why try to rebuild a house that is old, with a crumbling foundation, rotting frame and roof, and before you can even begin you will have to spend money and time fumigating and hunting down the vermin infested in it?
Its far easier and less costly to build a new house that you can ensure is thats foundation cannot be eroded. A house designed to protect you and your family from the elements. It is low maintenance, practical, and inviting so friends and family feel invited and will be happy to stay. The only rules of the house are a constitution, designed so that everyone is free to explore as long as they do their share of the chores. It doesn´t have to be fancy, just big, serviceable, and strong.
I say let the rats and roachs keep the old house. Its disintegrating around them and I believe that is how they want it. Well they can keep it then.
If a third party would only guarantee future Dem victories, what would be different than what we have today? The GOP is nothing more than Dem-lite. They may call themselves the non-Dems, but there’s not a whit of significant difference among inside the beltway pols. Once in DC, they all do the perk dance together.
We need a new breed of cat in DC that has a little rogue built in. I’d love to see Sarah Palin sitting in committee biting the heads off some of the back room boys.
#10 ~ excellent idea ~ pick better candidates ~ and to do that we need to fix, or abolish, the primaries, and to do that we need to take action at the state legislatures (where the laws are that actually govern these things).
Abolishing primaries in states where we have heavy cross-over from the Democrat voting base is the only way to go. Virginia has done that ~ Romney and his crowd so easily subverted the system it simply wasn´t worth getting involved in another primary.
They can still have a primary, but the VA Republican party doesn´t have to pay for it or respect the results.
Some TEAParty theoreticians out there might like to come up with a basic code for operating a new RNC ~ sans all the current crowd involved in that bloated abomination ~ and run it by Texas´ state committee. See if they want to take the lead in creating a new RNC and invite other states to adopt the code and take the action.
The big money guys can go back to the Democrats if they want. I think we can attract another 15 million new Republican voters from among the 90 million adult Americans who never vote. With that number we can crush the Democrats in almost every venue.
I´m not even registered as a Republican but snatching victory from the jaws of defeat would be starting a third party, splitting the vote, and guaranteeing a Democrat sweep of it all.
The Republicans have done a terrific job checking the march to socialism since the 2010 midterms. The tea party and, yes, John Boehner deserve much of the credit for that. If they hadn´t been stifled by the IRS the tea party would have had more of a voice in 2012.
Bottom line : these aren´t just ´´scandals ´´ the Democrats have dished up. They are real attacks on liberty and privacy. This is not the time to divide. We´ll be taxed, listed, targeted, wiretapped, and tracked from here on out if that happens.
I am not a fan of John Boehner, nor of other House leadership team members, but it is false to say they have not made clear their intentions of doing their own immigration bill. If you go to the Speaker´s blog site you can read his statement on this for yourselves. They will not take up the Senate bill and theirs will focus on border security first. He has said further that any final bill on immigration will have to be supported by a majority of GOP House members. That is what we know so far. Can we trust John Boehner and the other members of the GOP leadership, including Paul Ryan (who makes the same promises)? Only time will tell. I do think we cannot make up our own facts when we write about this issue. It is clear the leadership has made statements regarding their process on immigration reform. I do feel Sarah Palin will not move to form a third Party. It would be interesting to see John McCain´s reaction should she do so. I think the relationship between the two might change drastically.
A 3rd party based SOLELY on SMALLER, LIMITED government would have a strong chance of success---attracting many disillusioned and disappointed Demos, Pubbies, conservatives, independents and libertarians. The problem is that Republicans can´t see the value of a single-issue platform. They can´t resist taking potshots at EACH OTHER over side issues which would fall in place, post election. When we continue to snipe at our closest allies(those within our own party), we give the impression that we are not tolerant and are not unified. How could such a group be successful at moving any agenda forward? WHO would want to join a party that can´t stay cohesive and focused on the #1 issue---limited government?
We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. Trust in the Lord.
Last night we watched the movie Mr. Smith Goes To Washington with our eight-year-old son.
If you haven´t watched it, please do and notice the frightening similarities to our present day corrupted political system. Especially as it concerns the revolting treatment of Sarah Palin by our own party.
She is our Mr. Smith, the object of ridicule by the vultures in the wealthy and connected power club in DC and the Murkowski-ruled Alaskan media.
Sarah Palin is the same person who gave that electric speech a few years ago, with a wise intelligence, an excellent record, integrity and a clear vision of what it means to be an American, who got where she is without any privileges whatsoever. She hasn´t changed.
Like they did to Mr. Smith, the power broker-controlled media crucifies her because she shines a light on the corruption in Washington (and Alaska before that) and threatens their plush insulated world, and the willing groupies on the chat forums and talk shows soldier on in their ridicule, completely ignorant because they don´t know the difference between lies and truth and never will.
There´s a lot of creative "facting" on political threads. The House is doing a good job and Boehner deserves at least a smidgeon of credit. There´s not going to be an effective third party. Some people like to dream of it, but maybe those people haven´t researched how difficult it can be and how rarely successful. I also agree that Sarah Palin is not going to lead any such effort, but, gee, didn´t she get a lot of press by dangling the possibility. That was the point, of course.
The smug condescending attitudes displayed above serve as a prime example of why there is a revolt in the first place. Rather then say to themeselves "I think they are serious and maybe I should work to fix it" their attitude is "good luck with that" and "its all your fault if we lose". That is how smug and secure they feel in their arrogant ignorance.
Thank you for being a great resource for our cause.
Reply 29 - Posted by:
lil dotty, 7/6/2013 9:09:58 AM (No. 9411146)
No mud being tossed to see if it will stick...perhaps a little ´Silly Putty´
If the pubbies had a clue (which they do not) why doesn´t Cry Baby/JB invite Sarah Palin to sit with him as Speaker. Hells Bells....it´s not as if any elected follows our US Constitution any longer. And the necessity one needs to be a congressman to be Speaker is not stated anyway. This would show some good will on the elephants part, and perhaps help both divisions of the party. Some new blood transfusions, new ideas ...hey Lets Work Together but WTP demand our voices be heard.
FTA: "...angering their base and daring grassroots conservatives to form a new party."
Third Party?...Does anyone out there remember the "philanthropist" from Texarkana, referred to by The Maha Rushie as the "little hand grenade with a bad haircut," who "gifted" the world with the Klintons in 1992?
Stop with the crap about how a third party will ensure Republican defeat ad infinitum.
Nothing but scare tactics, particularly in light of the last two presidential elections. Republicans are credentialed losers. Get over it.
At this point a third party is imperative. The Republican elites will go down in history as scurrilous knaves. Conservatives will have to build a third party from the bottom up, and that will take a generation. So be it. The Tea Party has begun the work. Let it continue.
This is not about one or even five election cycles. This is about the fate of our constitutional republic. Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead!
The Republican party, with its current leadership and that of the recent past, has but two planks in its platform: 1. Hate Palin. Do so in a completely unreasonable and vicious manner. Practice your Alinsky on her. 2. Slow the fall of the nation. Be mildly obstructionist for the cameras, but where it might make a difference, spend spend spend just like the dems do. Yes, the country will fall, but you´ll have yours.
It is now or never. For decades establishment republicans have tried to woo conservatives at election time only to betray us once they are firmly ensconced in their offices. They ignore us and are embarrassed by us, but they need us to win. They call us extreme and look down their noses at our traditional family values. They are frauds and liars who promise one thing and then do another. We have had enough of that.
It is time to put the "we" back in "We the people". The ruling class has gotten us to this impasse because they left the fundamental platform of the party to be one of the cool guys...hip and well liked. It is time to declare war on the go along to get along philosophy. It is time to boldly and proudly stand for the values that set us apart from the world. We are Americans, a melting pot built on specific ideas and values that should not change depending on which way the political wind is blowing. We are free people willing to help each other out but not willing to support those who will not help themselves. We don´t need government breathing down out necks and we will not tolerate corruption or crony capitalism. We won´t cave or be cowed by hostile media. Put it on the line to our fellow Republicans and if they resist, which they will, leave them behind because their way is the path to destruction. We either begin anew or the party will die. It is time to act.
I agree that this is a good thread. We see the tired old arrogance displayed that is vintage Estab Repub. Trying to scare us into voting for bad candidates that the elites foist upon us no long works. I used to think people like Ms Mol and St Cen would listen and mull over our ideas and beliefs. No. It is easier to use old retreads of RNC tactics over and over. Because we were snookered in the past decade or two of weak moderates as candidates does not mean we will do it again. I have been tireless in phone banks and posters and putting yard signs in my area...giving more than was comfortable...all to the candidates I did not think were really going to help us defeat the Dems...I did it. My track record speaks for itself. I even wrote articles and letters to the editor debating and promoting all Republican candidates. All have been disappointments. So. I refuse to be blackmailed, scared or shamed by self righteous arrogant E. R. any more. I will not vote for a Dem lite ever ever again. And, I will not be alone. Republicans will never win another election due to nominating moderates/dem lites...with out without my vote. So at least by voting for an Independent or write in I can proclaim that lies and spin and smoke and arrogant promises that were never meant in the first place..will fall on deaf ears. Blame yourselves, Posters and E.R. You only have yourselves to blame for the demise of the Republican Party. I did my part. You did not do yours.
#2/35, you´ve given up on Ted Cruz, Susana Martinez, Trey Gowdy, Jason Chaffetz, Bobby Jindal, Scott Walker and the other up and comers? Without their having a chance to compete nationally? Maybe you´re retreating too soon.
The Republican party has ONE true conservative who speaks his mind, doesn´t run but walks into the fray, understands and supports the Constitution as it was written, takes all the abuse the MSM can dish out and shrugs it off. Best of all, he understands he works FOR all the American people, not just himself.
Senator TED CRUZ....research him, watch him, listen to him and take hope because there are others like him.
#32 El Correcto. The stupid republicans are going to lose elections and not gain the White House anyway. Hillary ´will´ be the next president. The House and Senate control is the only saving grace. Start a third party and start taking back the country one election at a time. I would prefer armed revolt with tar and feathers but it ain´t happening. It´s a sad state of affairs when a great constitutional conservative like Ted Cruz is considered radical and a trouble maker. Then his own party doesn´t rally for him but the leadership repremands it (McCain). No people a third party should be sought because I no longer identify with Republicans. I´m not voting for people chosen by elites dunder heads in Washington. I´m with Sarah Palin no matter how toxic she is.
I´m waiting to hear what Mark Levin is proposing on July10. However, my view is that now is the time for a third party. Unlike years past, we are in dire circumstances. The RINOs in Congress have abandoned everything reasonable and sane to appease the Dems, including most recently immigration reform.
This time, with the right leaders, a third party could completely overwhelm the establishment republicans. It would probably draw in fiscally conservative democrats and independents as well who are terrified about what is happening to this nation.
I am done with the party as it currently exists. Christie will not get my vote in November, period. He is just more of the same. Speaking to friends of mine, they feel the same way.
I went to WPB in y2k for the recount and I was already a member here. I´ve been broken glass, I´ve sent money and framed copies of my checks, I´ve carried signs in peaceful conservative protests and I´ve never failed to vote and generally generate some voters who would have otherwise passed.
What good has it all done? I´m ready to go for a small gov condervative party and I´m betting there are several dems that would crossover, not the free phone crowd but the white guilt dems know they screwed up in Obama and some will embarace a radical change. Sarah Palin, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mark Levin are the natural leaders and at this point conservatives have little to lose. Let´s Roll!
I have already begun telling the telephone donation solicitors that they will not get my money anymore because they just waste it on candidates that are just going to Washington for the social affairs and golf games. I´m done.
If Sarah breaks off into a third party, I am totally done with her. Remember Ross Perot who peeled off many Republicans and it caused the Clintons to get elected; Bill Clinton would never have been president without Perot. So the Republicans must stay united or they will lose again.
Having voted for true conservative and also Republican Ted Cruz, I now see Tx senator John Cornyn working with the Gang of 8 against Texas´ interests - by helping to pass the Senate immigration bill - by voting to bring it to the floor.
If the Repubs in the House vote for the immigration bill and it comes out of conference with no EFFECTIVE border control, I will not vote for republicans again.
Given the option of not voting for a party that has not used the power of the purse to BALANCE the budget, REPEAL Obamacare and SECURE the border, I would much rather give me time, $ and effort to a conservative 3rd Party, as opposed to waste any more votes for a party that is Democrat lite.
While you´re off thrashing about creating a third party, the "new" Republicans will be waving you good-bye from the porch of their "big tent" moving leftward a little hoping to replace you with "moderate Democrats" left behind by Obama´s radicalism. See, "wing nut" conservatives, like Palin, are a problem for the "new" GOP, the bitter clingers that give these moderates, the type used to be called "Reagan Democrats", pause even when faced with an Obama/Romney choice. By 2016 immigration will be a non-issue, DOMA is off the table, Obamacare to have its "good parts" saved, the abortion plank will be "moderated" or lost, and "high taxes" and deficit borrowing unmentioned. People in this country LOVE big government. Republicans in Congress LOVE big government. They love half-heartedly running against it, too. Third party? Sure, the "new" GOP will probably even help you form one! Stop thinking these people are "stupid"...they know exactly what they´re doing.
Forgive another post. The Repub Party as it is not ruled will never give respect to Cruz or any other bedrock believer in conservative issues. the other Republicans listed by SC are not like Cruz. Yes, they might have a little bit of conservative beliefs but will they crumble like all other Rubio/Rino´s or be steadfast like Cruz. Watch and wait. I am just giving notice that I will never vote for another moderate/dem lite Republican. NEVER. If the Republicans get rid of the current crop of leaders in the RNC who keep using the same old ´experts´ to run the campaigns I will never vote for another Republican nominee for Prez because my vote will not help elect such a watered-down candidate against a strong Hillary candidate. Thus, it would be better for me to vote Independent, Libertarian(maybe), or write -in and make a statement that will reach the stupid party´s thick, blockheaded, smug, satisfied, arrogant, elites. Clear enough?
#38, we´ve all heard the "Hillary Clinton WILL be the next President" talking point before. How did that work out in 2008? Have you looked at her lately? She´s a withered old crone now, and will look much worse in 2016. All that Old Overholt she packs away on a daily basis isn´t doing her any good. And don´t count the Republicans out in 2016 just yet. They don´t have anybody else to run besides that old drunk. I truly believe that it is the liberals who are on their last legs. They´ve won everything, and it is all turning into ashes for them. Their Big Government panacea isn´t working any longer. They´ve backed themselves into a corner and there is no way out.
An excellent thread for picking out the Moderates. They use the same scare tactics as the Left and also throw in an anti Sarah smear just to let us all know how dumb we are not to follow their lead. Your threats and smears, as much as your political ideas, have moved me to the Constitution Party. It is true, the Constitution Party as well as the Libertarian Party, may never win the WH. The GOP will never win my State so voting GOP in California is a wasted vote.
The liberal Democrats want to pass their so-called immigration reform bill that would legalize, or allow into the USA, 46 million or so foreign workers and their foreign family members in the next ten years. A big majority of those people would be poor, and generally uneducated, and unskilled. History shows that the vast majority of such foreigners, when granted US voting rights, eventually register as Democrat voters. The Democrats know that and certainly would not be pushing for such a special path to citizenship for that many foreign people if they saw even scant evidence that more then a very small percentage of those classes of foreigners would ever have an epiphany and vote for the Republicans. As the Democrats, and especially the specific partisan liberal Democrats who are pushing the bill, are not in the business of assisting the Republicans in winning future national elections. The Republicans who have been pushing the liberal Democrat drafted bill are shortsighted, and can only see the visions of an unlimited supply of cheap foreign labor being given access to the legal US job market to compete for jobs against, and to hold down the wages of a huge numbers of American workers on into the future to their business constituents delight. But once the Democrats get enough new foreign born voters to change the political balance of the country in their favor, the Republicans will have no chance of winning future national elections, and the Democrats once in permanent political power, will unionize all that immigrant labor. Where will the Democrat lite party be then?
1. You want to go third party? Do it. 2. You want to vote "Independent". Go for it. 3. You don´t like anything or anyone in the GOP? No one has handcuffed you to the Republicans. It´s a free country. 4. You´re waiting for Sarah Palin to act? Your privilege, of course. 5. You believe the country is doomed? Pardon me if I don´t agree.
You think all of us should join you in jumping off a political cliff in a useless and futile gesture? No thank you. I believe I won´t.
Wow. The seminar on charming and persuading potential voters has really paid off. As long as college republican hasbeens and lackeys for third tier unprincipled consultants use the republican apparatus to justify their existence, whether it comes in the form of trying to spin a thread on a website or belittling people who find agreement on principles neither understood nor appreciated, a third party is viable. Palin ain´t the problem here, you and yours are. And by the looks of things, yours is a dying breed. The people who repeatedly told you Romney was a loser weren´t wrong. The people who find Palin´s message compelling-- by the way, it would seem there a whole lot more of them, A LOT MORE, than there are of you, they aren´t stupid, they aren´t unsophisticated and they understand who you are and how little you stand for. You´ve marginalized yourself and those who get on the board every morning with your one note opera. So the republicans don´t need to start a new party, they just need to get rid of the empty barrels from the last one and disinfect the couch. Faugh a Ballagh
I won´t be surprised if the Republicans win the presidency in 2016, Hillary has too much baggage, the economy is not getting better, and because Obamacare isn´t going to kick in until 2015 it will be working its maximum damage just in time for the 2016 elections. So I think it´s incredibly important the Republicans pick a solid conservative with libertarian leanings (i.e. an advocate of smaller government) for their candidate. It will require such a person to repair the damage done by Obama. Hillary´s best hope is another Ross Perot to divide the opposition. However horrible the Republican establishment might be concentrate on getting a conservative/libertarian as the Republican candidate.
One thing this thread makes clear is that there is definitely a group that believe the R party belongs to them and others are a nuisance to be treated with contempt and scorn, the unwashed who aren´t grateful for the chance to vote for the "not Democrat" the grandees select.
Most here have been sentenced to wandering the desert for 40 years. You will not see the promised land. You come here for your drink of water and kvetch about what should be or could have been. The truth is that you are your own worst enemy. Sit quietly as you allow open primaries. Sit quietly as you allow elitists to characterize themselves as the "Compassionate conservative" over the fly-over types who work 50-60 hrs/wk and then drive the church bus into lo-fo neighborhoods on Sunday. Sit quietly as far-left demons parade through your streets and physically beat those who stand for righteousness. Sit quietly as you watch movies and TV or listen to the music you purchased from people who spit on God. No, you are not a victim. You are reaping what you have sown. I´m just as guilty as everyone else here. My son, however, has been watching the events of the last 5 years and knows that his survival depends on his getting involved with the power brokers. He´s a gifted student that is on track to be the valedictorian at his high school. He knows that he will have to use stealth and keep his cards close to his chest in order to affect change. This country is not dead, but the one everyone here remembers certainly is. The best that most here can do is to live well in the years that remain.
If you insist on 100% purity according to your particular vision, you´ll always feel betrayed by whomever you elect. Suppose a candidate comes along with feasible plans to repeal Obamacare, put a stop to illegal immigration, corral the EPA, and stop the PC madness destroying education. Sounds good, right? Then you find out that this particular candidate isn´t going to make ending abortion (pick your own hot-button issue) a priority. But it´s YOUR priority. What then? Will you refuse to vote for him or her? Help elect the Democrat who´s going to be 100% against you on everything?
And if social issues are your top issues, you won´t, I assure you, be happy with the Libertarian Party.
Palin? She´ll do what she did in 2011--lead her fans to believe she´s running, then bail at the last minute.
“These are the times that try men’s souls.” Thomas Paine told us at the founding, and those words are just as true today.
For those who insist a third party could never work, a history lesson; The Republican Party started out as a third party.
To those who are willing today to abandon their principles and belief in the limited government that the Founders bequeathed us, and simper along with the new castrati, fine. I don’t think Thomas Paine would have much truck with you, nor do some of the rest of us.
There is a refrain I believe many former Republicans are hearing today: “Give me some men who are stout-hearted men and I’ll soon give you ten thousand more.” Todd Beamer had it right.
Third parties do not work in a two-party system. Instead of wasting a lot of money and effort on a hopeless cause, simply boycott the GOP. Eventually it will collapse and then a replacement can be brought in.
I vote on the issues. Since Reagan I have voted for Republicans because I have agreed with them on the issues. But things have changed. I´m against open borders, the Republicans are for them. I´m against gay marriage because of what the issue does to our religious freedom, the Republicans are trending towards it. I´m not in the income bracket that lower taxes would help so that isn´t an issue even though I believe in low taxes. However that issues isn´t enough to make me continue to support Republicans when I don´t agree with them on the other issues.
A question for establishment Republicans on this thread -- What could be more futile than nominating and voting for yet another Bush-McCain-Romney unprincipled Republican? Will they fight to lower taxes or roll back unconstitutional regulations? NO! Will they fight for liberty? NO!
It makes no difference if this country dies under Democratic-socialist rule or Republican-socialist rule. Either way, liberty dies.
Thoughtful posts and reasoned logic on both sides.
BUT... Republicans are losing NOW. A new party would be difficult to get off the ground, billions would be thrown at discrediting and destroying it, and it would indeed take a generation to become effective.
But how long was our Revolutionary War? What if our treasured Founders has fussed and wrung their hands over every detail before they committed to the rightness of their ideals?
What if every battle lost was cause to give up the fight? The Republican Party has given up and are joining the opposition in more regards than one. Why should we be loyal and content to allow them to betray us before we say ENOUGH!
Why do we give up?! Many if not most of us are born of that blood and desire to be free to determine our own destinies. Every battle lost should be a learning experience of what went wrong, and improved next time. The current GOP/RNC learns only how to cave.
I´m out. I can no more defend the GOP than I can the Democrats. We may lose before we win, but we will be certain that WE FOUGHT OUR BEST. The winning will come.
During the primaries I made a comment to the effect that both parties were driving us over the same cliff. We were just fighting over which lane to cruise in. Nothing has happened since then to change my mind. If anything, it has been reinforced. We can all agree that Obama is the worst curse ever inflicted in our lifetimes, but he didnt happen in a vacuum. The way was paved by many before him from both parties. How many knew about the NSA´s unconstitutional abuses but did nothing to stop it? How many actually made it worse with higher tech and lower scrutiny? How many voted for bad laws just to bring home huge pork projects? How many voted to choke businesses and citizens with massive taxation just to buy the votes of poor people?
Unless the Republicans are willing to put on the brakes and change course (as opposed to picking a different lane), I´m done with them. I´ll stick out my thumb and catch a ride with someone else. The lesser of two evils is still evil.
The core reason several can´t/won´t let go of the fossilized GOP is because they have neither affinity for nor grasp of the core of conservative principle; an attitude that embraces timeless tradition rather than the trendy zeitgeist. So they´re content w/the GOP jackasses; screeching like banshees; Hey, don´t rock he boat. Waive bye-bye to these losers whose hallmark trait is cold and paralyzing fear. We have nothing to fear but fear and their message of defeat; all in the name of breeding and good manners of course.
Don´t know why it isn´t, but this thread should be a Must Read.... for the posts in response as well as the article itself. There are reasoned people here.
For my continued argument, I give you Exhibit 1: Marco Rubio.
Has he completely lost his conservative credentials? Or did he not really have them in the first place? I don´t know that answer - I´m not a citizen or resident of Florida. I liked him very much early on.
But his willingness and naivete at allowing himself to be snookered by known miscreants such as Schmuckie Schumer and Dick Turban cause me grave concern over his future.
Well, his future is his to determine. He either speaks up for the conservative values he displayed in order to GET elected, or he may not get RE-elected, to anything.
He is typical of what we have all seen in the Republican Party over the last many years, if not decades, whether we were willing to admit it or not.
(continuation...) Denial is NOT just a river in Egypt. Acknowledging your addiction is the first step to kicking it. I am not, and never have been addicted to the GOP.
It is indeed the Republican Party that has left ME, not the other way around. They either realize that we are AMERICANS, through and through, and we don´t like being DICTATED TO, or they don´t.
Either way, we still don´t like it. And we WILL fight back, however we must and however we can, to regain what we see being frittered away on a daily basis.
Whoever leads a conservative party, whether a truly reformed GOP or a fresh third party (which I believe would rapidly overtake the stale RNC), whether it´s called the Constitution Party or the Freedom Party or the USIP, I´m there. And those new leaders would be well advised now not to stray. I can´t and won´t support any politician who won´t live up to his or her stated beliefs after a win. The principled conservative win is the road to instituting the policies that will ensure a strong, stable future for our grandchildren, and theirs.
Why would we be content to let those not yet born (and never may be....!) to fix OUR MISTAKES? That´s NOT WHO WE ARE. We may not live to see the end of this national nightmare, but WE HAVE TO TRY better than we have been!
RNC, this warning is yours to heed, or suffer the consequences. Only you can turn yourselves around, back to us, or find yourselves withered away in the desert of What Used To Be. But what you are now desperately needs water.
As I´ve stated many times, I´m not a Republican, I´m a conservative. The issue no one has addressed yet is what if the Republicans win in 2016, with another center-left "moderate" as candidate? Do you really expect anything to change? The Republicans controlled both the house and Senate early in George W´s administration. Remember any efforts on their part to address the concerns of conservatives? Just a lot of lip service to get elected, then they went on a huge spending spree. I realize 9/11 occurred, but W buried his veto pen for 4 years and essentially gave the democrats all the pork they wanted in order to get the financing for the war. He signed new entitlements and symbolically (by his deportment) was conservative but governed as a liberal. The thing that most disturbed about him was the entire "compassionate conservatism" thing, which implied that conservatives weren´t. It did, however, show what the attitude of the elite republicans is. IMO if a conservative third party were to be formed, the conservative stars that are currently Republicans would join us, because they will never get the respect and support of the ER´s and will always have to fend off their attacks as well as those of the ´Rats´.
RUBIO ~ just an observation on what it is driving him to run off in all directions.
We saw Charlie Crist leave the party ~ and if a detailed analysis were done of the 2012 Presidential race I think you´d see that he took a faction of marginal Republican voters with him.
Too many numbers to crunch for me and I´m mostly blind anyway, but Florida could have belonged to the ´pubies´ ~ all we needed were more Republican voters.
Now, about how many parties there are in the USA. let´s start with the basics. There are at least 52 different Democrat parties (still 2 different bodies incorporated in TN and TX ~ no idea if both are active though) Then there are Democrat parties in territories and DC.
Republican parties are also quite numerous. We easily have 120 basic R/D parties and a good 30 small parties.
Starting with 150 parties, a third party would do what?
Still the best bet is to go for the head ~ like the Republicans did. They weren´t a THIRD PARTY, they were a Republican National Committee and they invited state parties and groups (still extant Whig party elements and Abolitionists) to send delegates to a meeting that nominated John C. Fremont for President.
You have 150 parties to draw on ~ get cracking ~ AT THE TOP. I´d start with Texas and Virginia, and maybe Indiana and North Dakota ~ see who will follow.
It isn´t a revolt that Republicans face. Rather, it is a loss of voters - registered Republicans or otherwise. The new party will not be a bunch of Republican insiders revolting and neither will it be a bunch of revolting Republicans. It will be citizens who are looking for a responsible party that will uphold the constitution. Now is the time for the creation of a new party, while the Tea Party still has the energy and momentum to bring it to fruition. Trying to reform the Republican Party would be as hopeless as trying to reform the Democrat Party.
As the saying goes, "you can´t teach an old dog new tricks". It is time to start with a new puppy that can learn the nature of a constitutional republic. In the meantime, whether the ´Rats continue to win is only a temporary setback. All the damage they do will only help people to recognize the disaster they are. The constitution can be made to prevail once the ´Rats are chased off the ship. It is far too late to hope for any immediate alleviation of the disaster that resides in Washington. Rebuilding will take constitutionally dedicated people who are willing to methodically garner the support of the adults who are capable of grasping the significance of the objectives. The emotionally motivated are not serious people and they are likely to remain ´Rat supporters. Patience is going to be required to overcome 100 years of decline. So be it. The reward will be long lasting if Americans are once again returned to their place as the only adult nation on the planet.
So - what do you think are the odds that within a few weeks of each other, two 34 year-old black people from Brooklyn, New York, with nothing in common so far as is known, begin acting out in the same U.S. city in such a manifestly dangerous manner after claiming to have been exposed to vague, arcane technology that they wind up having to be put down like animals by the local constabulary? I thought so… At this juncture, I’m sure that any other connections that may have existed between Miriam Carey (the woman who used her car as a weapon
Much of Barack Obama’s flawed governance is attributed to his exceptional ability to distort the truth: That is, he is a damned liar! However, Obama’s public pronouncements of late are so far removed from reality that one wonders if other forces are at work. For instance, The One recently made headlines by declaring that increasing the debt ceiling will NOT increase the debt. Before that, he emphatically stated that he did NOT draw a red line in the Syrian crisis. And even as labor unions demand that Obamacare be changed or repealed, and as more and more employers take actions to avoid the stings
The history of civilization dating back some five millennia is one of unrelenting tyranny, rapaciousness, arrogance, and stupidity. The players and the places changed, but the slaughter was unremitting, the suffering broken only by occasional brief periods of peace, good weather and crops. For most of the past, war, famine, and disease killed most people. During the famous soliloquy of Hamlet, he contemplates taking his own life, saying “There’s the respect that makes calamity of so long life—for who would bear the whips and scorns of time, the oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely, the pangs of despised love, the law’s
We know Obama loves the poor because he´s been hell-bent on making more of them since the day he was elected. All of Obama´s policies have been about increasing government power, and none of them have been about helping Americans get jobs. Even though the only product of Obama´s economic policies has been a massive increase in poverty and dependency in America, Obama continues to either demand more of the same or ignore any attempt to bring those the Obama economy pushed into poverty back into the American economic mainstream. With real unemployment running at 14%, Obama is telling us how
Two battles were joined this week, one on Capital Hill and another at the University of Wisconsin-Madison (the symbolic core of which is known as Bascom Hill). In both cases, free men who refused to be cowed struck back at overreaching tyrants. (a) The Battle of Capitol Hill As the Republicans and Democrats squared off on spending, World War II and Korean War vets were making their way to Washington, D.C. on Honor Flights, a charitable program to bring these folks to see the memorials to service members who fought in those wars. Many are aged and infirm -- especially those who
E.J. Dionne tweeted out a pointer Friday morning to this TPM post that has the lefties very excited about how they are "winning" the shutdown. Odd way to read a poll, when 52% blame everybody or just the Democrats, but the Democrats have been math challenged for a long time. Viewed through the lens of the 2014 elections, this poll is wonderful news for the GOP, as the narrative of President Nobama is emerging --no negotiations, no compromise, no nothing. President Obama will negotiate with the Syrian butcher Assad and erase the fabled "red line" when told told to by Russian
Here’s a good idea: Let’s assemble the crew at America’s Got Talent or American Idol and let each department head or secretary in the federal government get up on stage and make the case why they are so darned important before we agree to fund their activities for another year. We can call it American Ideal. We can have the folks at Citizens Against Government waste, who have identified “557 recommendations that would save taxpayers $580.6 billion in the first year and $1.8 trillion over five years,” act as panelists for the show. The live audience can be Tea Party “terrorists” and
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Of all the fraud perpetrated in the passage of Obamacare — and the fraud has been epic — the lowest is President Obama’s latest talking point that the Supreme Court has endorsed socialized medicine as constitutional. To the contrary, the justices held the “Affordable” Care Act unconstitutional as Obama presented it to the American people: namely, as a legitimate exercise of Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce. To sustain this monstrosity, Chief Justice John Roberts had to shed his robes and put on his legislator cap. He rewrote Obamacare as a tax — the thing the president most indignantly promised
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Grover Norquist, the president of Americans for Tax Reform, slammed Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) on Wednesday and accused him of abandoning House Republicans in the budget battle. Norquist told the Washington Post that Cruz came out "from left field" and "said we have to defund Obamacare permanently." He then complained that "people went out on talk radio and said if you’re not for this you’re a coward, you’re a RINO." Norquist said because Cruz "didn’t deliver any Democratic votes," he "pushed House Republicans into traffic and wandered away" without mentioning that many House Republicans only joined Cruz and Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT)
Imagine you are a veteran of World War II approaching your 90th birthday. This may be your last opportunity to visit the memorial that was erected to honor your service. You have come to your nation’s Capital, only to find that your president has ordered that memorial barricaded to keep you out. As a teenager, you jumped off a landing craft into the surf at Omaha Beach and watched as your buddies were cut to pieces in the sand. Or maybe you endured the horrors of Iwo Jima or Guadalcanal battling the Japanese in the Pacific. You did your duty,
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She’s reportedly waiting until 2014 before she starts thinking about 2016, but Hillary Clinton, according to one national poll, is your front runner for the White House — by a wide margin. And Elizabeth Warren is your fastest rising star. The former secretary of state and first lady dominated last week’s new Quinnipiac University survey, which showed her gobbling up 61 percent of support and beating any Republican challenger — be it New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, Kentucky U.S. Sen. Rand Paul or Texas U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz — by anywhere from 13 to 23 points. But no one in Headline corrected by Staff.
Days after the launch of the federal government´s Obamacare website, millions of Americans looking for information on new health insurance plans were still locked out of the system even though its designers scrambled to add capacity.Government officials blame the persistent glitches on an overwhelming crush of users - 8.6 million unique visitors by Friday - trying to visit the HealthCare.gov website this week. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, which oversaw development of the site, declined to make any of its IT experts available for interviews. CGI Group Inc, the Canadian contractor that built HealthCare.gov, is "declining to comment
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Near MOUNT PISGAH, N.C. — At a spot 5,000 feet above sea level and 20 miles from the nearest town, an innkeeper decided Friday to defy the federal government and reopen his lodge. That stand lasted about two hours as National Park Service rangers blocked the entrances to the privately run Pisgah Inn on the Blue Ridge Parkway after owner Bruce O´Connell decided to reopen his dining room, gift shop and country store at noon Friday for lunch. The federal government had forced the inn, in a leased building on federal land, to shut down at 6 p.m. ET Thursday
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Two battles were joined this week, one on Capital Hill and another at the University of Wisconsin-Madison (the symbolic core of which is known as Bascom Hill). In both cases, free men who refused to be cowed struck back at overreaching tyrants. (a) The Battle of Capitol Hill As the Republicans and Democrats squared off on spending, World War II and Korean War vets were making their way to Washington, D.C. on Honor Flights, a charitable program to bring these folks to see the memorials to service members who fought in those wars. Many are aged and infirm -- especially those who
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Las Vegas, NV -- The government shutdown is being felt close to home for some locals. They say they´re being forced out of private homes on Lake Mead because they sit on federal land. Joyce Spencer is 77-years-old and her husband Ralph is 80. They´ve been spending most of their time in the family ice cream store since going home isn´t an option. The Spencers never expected to be forced out of their Lake Mead home, which they´ve owned since the 70s, but on Thursday, a park ranger said they had 24 hours to get out. "I had to go
Two professional colorists have combined their skills with photographs and fascination with the American Civil War to create a remarkable series of color photographs from the era. British colorist Jordan Lloyd, 27, met fellow colorist Mads Madsen, 19, from Denmark when he started posting on Madsen´s subreddit ´Colorized History´. Initially it was Madsen who was colorizing images from the Civil War era, but Lloyd eventually got interested and now the two work together restoring the images, improving their technique by giving each other critiques. Madsen has been interested in the Civil War since he was 12, and was especially fascinated