In March 2013, when Edward Snowden sought a job with Booz Allen Hamilton at a National Security Agency facility in Hawaii, he signed the requisite classified-information agreements and would have been made well aware of the law regarding communications intelligence. Section 798 of the United States Code makes it a federal crime if a person "knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States" any classified
Don´t lament the fact that no one wants to "comment on an article that lays it all out there for those in denial." Denial is the only thing keeping most of the people at this site from going completely bonkers. For those of us who´ve spent a majority of their life working for the Department of Defense, the idea that someone with Snowden´s credentials could be granted access without an entire network of people helping him do it is foolish. The barbarians are so far inside the gate that they´re here to stay. As I´ve said before, electing a Republican as POTUS won´t change anything because once he (or she) gets elected, they´ll quickly turn on us and proclaim themself the "compassionate" one. Sound familiar? Denial keeps people believing that GWB was some kind of saint and saying so at this site may get you banned. This salon (that began as one of the best news sites on the web) devolved into a little internet comfort zone for seniors and our Dear Ms. Lucianne (I´ll always believe that and support her) wants it that way. That´s just the way it is.
There is very little comfort here these days, except for reminding us that not everyone in the country has abandoned the hope of living as an American. What troubles me is this: When the persecution begins for real, how will we recognize each other? Ramona (the Pest)
Snowden did us a huge favor. I will be forever greatful for his blowing the whistle on "citizen monitoring". By the way, George Bush is a godly man that loves this country and did everything e could to make us a beacon of freedom. To even begin to compare what Bush did to what Obama is currently doing makes Snowden (compared to Obama) look like a saint. I don´t know what´s up with these RINOs - maybe they never were with us.
For me, it is sad to see most of the smears against Snowden coming from the Right. I suggest that those who consider Snowden a traitor find a way of seeing the new movie, Copperheads, which opened last night. It is downloadable on Netflicks and Amazon, I believe. During the Civil War, the US Constitution was used to wrap fish. Those in the Northern states who still supported Constitutional government (dissenters) were branded "Copperheads" and reviled by their communities. Snowden is a modern day Copperhead.
hmm ~ snowden´s real secret was the depth and breadth NSA is able to tap into Chicom, Russian and other communications. So far all he´s said about our civil communications system is that they simply ask the phone companies to give it to them, which they do.
Now, the real issue ~ how much data do the Chicoms pull out of our systems ~ and who are their guys. Were they working with Snowden?
Obviously Chicom agents wouldn´t want us to know about that.
Heroes are born not made and Snowden is definitely a made man. Who made him? Well Greenwald writes for left wing newspapers and blogs and has more communist associations than a Harvard post Doc. Watch where Snowden ends up, he went to China then Russia from which he´s heading to Cuba with Ecuador or Venezuela apparently the final destination. None of those countries can be thought of as a typical refuge for an American hero. What has he accomplished? He tipped us us off to massive NSA data gathering and analysis of all forms of domestic communication (a secret that´s been public since the turn of the century) and he´s probably given the Chinese and the Russians whatever NSA stuff he has on those computers and the same stuff to communist organizations (through Greenwald). He´s given Obama a big break by taking attention off of Benghazi and the IRS scandals. I do hope people will drop the hero handle.
No doubt Snowden was plugged into some kind of "network". Whether it was limited to the Guardian, WikiLeaks, or more sinister organizations is to be determined.
Can one be a hero and a traitor at the same time? Apparently, yes.
As to Nixon and Bush: to this day I´m convinced that despite being demonized, both were/are good men doing what they believed to be what was in the best interest of the country. However, like Herbert Hoover both cracked open gates that others drove Mack trucks through.
The Creator and the Framers knew we would be governed by people who were complex and imperfect: both good and bad aspects to them. That is why the former provided Salvation, and the latter provided the Constitution. While spiritual Salvation is above our "pay grade", we can and must restore and re-apply the Constitution if we are to save the Republic.
Information about information system capabilities is a saleable commodity.
Usually a few samples are all that´s needed to convince knowledgeable folks that you got the goods!
Snowden´s visit to the Moscow airport seems to have not been terribly convincing to the Russians.
A PROGNOSTICATION: Next, Snowden arrested for counterespionage gambit ~ on behalf of who as yet unknown. Headlines will say ´Millions of friends and supporters shocked´ and storylines will interview those who thought of him as a great friend of the 4th amendment and the American way of life. They will be shocked beyond shocked!
Reply 12 - Posted by:
St. Pitbull, 6/29/2013 10:35:38 AM (No. 9400201)
#2 - there may be some truth to what you say. But do not consider everyone here a cheerleader for GWB and the Rep´s. I´m an equal opportunity slammer but the problems with the dems dwarf those of the Rep´s). GWB paved the way for the massive deficit spending from the Øtard. He got us into wars that we have no business being in for as long as we were - and the Øtard was only too happy to continue them for his sinister reasons.
I have no problem going against the grain here. I would actually bet that a majority of the people are more in this way of thinking - they may not be the ones that post the most frequently, but do not assume that there is one herd here. btw - I have been kicked off this site 3- 4 times already, but not recently for several years. Maybe I have moderated my venom somewhat, but I believe that the site monitors also prefer a free-flow of opinions. jmo and another btw - I don´t recognize your name (probably just me - I´m terrible with names), but if you have the time, it wouldn´t be bad if you would post your ideas and opinions more frequently.
(and I hope the site monitors will make an exception about the addressing of a poster in this case since it goes directly to the content and one of this site´s purposes)
I´m with you, #9. The smartest, strongest, richest spy agency in the world can´t find a former employee walking around with 4 laptops that contain the intel secrets of the universe. They can´t hack into the data on those laptops, but worry that the Chinese or Russians have been able to access the data. They left doors open in their own systems security so that their own analysts could walk in with a thumb drive and steal every bit of data the NSA has collected. Right. A smart 5th grader could see through this baloney in a second, but the US media doesn´t find any of it hard to swallow. I wonder why.
The "denial" is all on the part of the "true-blue patriots" here who want to make themselves believe the lie that their country isn´t a walking corpse. So they obsessively reach for the old patent nostrums that used to work so well: Rally round the flag, boys! My country, right or wrong! Kill the traitor! They have to keep playing the old game because if they stop, they´re realize that there´s no America left to betray any more. How does one "betray" a harlot? America the Dead - there´s your anthem for this dreary Fourth of July.
Why is it so difficult to grasp that this may not be a simple binary situation (0 = he´s bad, a traitor; 1 = he´s good, a hero)? How about..."he took traitorous action but in the course of doing so he revealed facts of great benefit to American citizens"? Which he did.
Without the open revelation of the clearly unconstitutional action of our government, we may never have discovered how broadly and illegally our government was gathering information on every citizen. Now that this is in the open, we at least have the opportunity to identify and enforce limits and controls on government surveillance tactics.
AND, yes, Snowden did so illegally and perhaps for other than pure motives. Great. Arrest and prosecute him, and take appropriate action if he is found guilty.
Lastly, it is unwise to make overly broad generalizations about the posters (or our gracious host) on this forum. There is a wide diversity of thought and experiences here. Some of us are also capable of discerning more than the obvious sets of logical possibilities.
After reading tons of paid journalists guessings on the subject, go back and replay Snowden’s original 13 minute, Hong Kong interview http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower?commentpage=1 Whether you like what he says, or do not like what he’s done, consider that actor John Cusack offered these two words, "Civil Disobedience". He was referring to the early work, published in 1849, of Henry David Thoreau. Wikipedia defines civil disobedience as, resistance to civil government, “Thoreau argues that individuals should not permit governments to overrule or atrophy their consciences, and that they have a duty to avoid allowing such acquiescence to enable the government to make them the agents of injustice”. Thoreau was motivated in part by his disgust with slavery and the Mexican–American War. Perhaps Snowden´s surprising behavior will free up others in our monster corrupt Congress, government, press and TV media, to act on their stifled, smothered, academically controlled consciences. Add Snowden to the needed list of brave whistleblowers countering the censoring and politically correct indoctrination. Birth certificate, Benghazi, Fast and Furious, IRS crazed power, NSA controls, stifling of journalists, it´s all coming unglued.
#2 hit the nail on the head. The executive branch has become so powerful that we may be past the point of no return for bringing it back into balance. Really got out of whack after 9/11, then Obama took it to new heights. No way Any Democrat or Republican will want to give up any power. It´s Rome in 49 BC again and the big question is, who will be crossing the Rubicon?
Here´s my tinfoil hat theory. This isn´t about Snowden nor NSA secrets (btw, EVERY single thing Snowden said about NSA programs was said by EVERY single elected Democrat when Bush was president, EVERYTHING. Remember? I do. Notice that no Dem Senator nor Rep is hiding at the Moscow airport). Like Paula Deen´s inquisition, this about a power demonstration (READ: Valerie Jarrett´s power demonstration) ala The Killing Fields re-education camps and the message isn´t to you if you are a conservative. The power message is directed to THEIR liberal supporters. IOW, the person at issue is Greenwald. He is a well known leftist reporter. Paula Deen is a well known leftist supporter; famous, innocent and sweet like many of Mao´s, Castro´s, Lenin´s, Pol Pot´s, et al supporters who were murdered or destroyed after the power grab was complete. This is Marxist communism establishing their ultimate power with their own. It´s their m.o. and it has been their pattern EVERY time they take over a nation. Watch for more leftist-statist supporters in the near future like CEO´s, maybe a well known Dem, a known leftist actor, etc who´ll be taken down and destroyed by Val just because she can. The message is that only one dog gets to tinkle on the fire hydrant and it´s Val, any questions?
Wrong question and wrong source... WSJ has not been America´s friend since last proposed immigration takeover and possibly before that.
There is an ongoing erosion of liberty since before Clinton shared secrets with China to get elected and the Supreme Court told us abortion was a woman´s right. Our world is upside down when right is wrong and life is death.
Now the GOP doesn´t want to touch conservative issues and is fast becoming no different than Dems.
Rand Paul was correct when he said, "Clapper lied. Snowden told the truth."
As conservatives we must stand with other true conservatives. Sarah said today, Rubio and Ayotte must be primaried.
It´s also past time for the churches of this nation to call America to prayer... Our Lord and our faith is our only hope!
One does not pick and choose which oaths to honor. The oath is taken and it is either kept or not.
The first oath is, and always should be, to the Constitution. Each subsequent oath should not compromise the first.
Read this article and then decide what you think: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/general-keith-alexander-cyberwar/all/
What you´ll discover is that GEN Alexander broke the law and spied on American citizens and he was pardoned for his crime. There were other avenues open to him, just as were open to Snowden, but GEN Alexander chose not to use them and broke the law.
Given this, in a truly just society, how can Snowden be punished? So it´s OK for the government to violate oaths, but when someone brings to light those violations, that is now criminal activity?
I do not agree with how Snowden went about exposing this abuse. But I understand his desire to expose government abuse of the ideals that have made this country great.
In fact, that is the real problem: We have become a country that is more concerned with protecting the people, than protecting the ideals of this country.
Shame him if you want. But realize the hypocrisy of that shame and that many others should be shamed as well but aren´t and will never be because they have been pardoned.
How can you punish one man for violating an oath but you pardon another for the same violation?
According to the renown Susan Rice -- "U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice rejected suggestions that National Security Agency leaks by former contractor Edward Snowden had damaged U.S. foreign policy or weakened President Obama. It is all bunk ....".
Didn´t she say something about a video or something?
To my mind: 1. Snowden is a traitor who revealed classified secrets 2. By accident or design, he did us all a service by showing how the Obamanoids took the limited NSA brief and expanded it for their own political purposes 3. That was probably one of the components that allowed them to steal the 2012 election, along with the IRS helpmates 4. Snowden hasn´t got anything that Russia and China haven´t got already, given the legendary incompetence of American bureaucracy. I bet they cleaned all our secrets out within a month of Black Marx being elected. 5. If you want to keep your privacy, start writing letters.
Back in the good old days they ran mail covers ~ they´d copy down everything on the face of the letter´s envelope Then, along came Conintelpro and they decided they´d like to copy down the contents.
Nixon caught h.. over that.
Today USPS captures an image of the front and back, including invisible printing, on every piece of letter mail.
The Obamugabe is running covers on EVERYTHING.
It is conceivably more important than what NSA is doing with phone calls and email messages (grabbing the handles on the ID sets)
Reason: US post offices, and their p.o.boxes are the world center for receipt of ALL written espionage. By running mail covers on everything we are going to lose that cachet ~ world center ~ and AlQaida wins the war again. The world intelligence community actually cannot trust mail service anywhere else to NOT open the covers and take a look.
Lets backtrack a bit. The IRS, NSA, TSA, and FBI are actively gathering data about all of us. It´s been in the news and it is political in nature and designed to harm political parties and persons who are against the current administration. They mean to harm you if you become a thorn in their sides or a threat to their existence. Myself, I´m too old to worry about retribution.
If these government agencies aren´t a threat to your freedom, then have a good time on your way to the ovens. What is worse is that the press in this country is aiding and abetting them. I don´t know Snowden, but I believe he was involved in a situation that bothered him greatly. Spying on private citizens within a free country and using the data involved to get elected to office is a criminal operation.
Does anyone here believe that Snowden would be alive today if he hadn´t protected himself with incriminating records of what was happening in the spy agencies of this country. Face it, the job of any republic is to protect it´s citizens, not spy on them for personal political gain. I´d like to see what he has on the Politicians in DC, especially relating to Obamas past. I don´t think the man was elected legally.
Welcome to the USSR and Nazi governments rolled into one.
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