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Don’t Drink the Inside-the-
Beltway Fiscal-Cliff Kool-Aid

National Review Online, by Avik Roy

Original Article

Posted By:Dreadnought, 12/28/2012 10:51:31 PM

Given the alternatives that are being bandied about in Washington, there can be no doubt that, from a policy perspective, going over the fiscal cliff is the far superior option. Temporary extensions of tax cuts don’t do much for the economy; temporary extension of unemployment benefits retards job-seeking; and the whole grab-bag of accounting gimmicks allows Congress to avoid owning up to the true scale of the budget deficit, a budget deficit that will get cut in half if we go over the cliff. The most common conservative rejoinder to these arguments is political: that Republicans will be blamed

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: arcady, 12/28/2012 11:28:59 PM     (No. 9088155)

I´ll believe it´s a crisis when they start acting like it´s one, instead of the manufactured one that it is. If this were a real crisis, I wouldn´t have read elsewhere that Obama unfroze government employee salaries. It´s them versus us, and the only crisis is we don´t want to pay what they want to take.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: RedWhiteBlue, 12/28/2012 11:47:45 PM     (No. 9088172)

They are all turning into DRAMA QUEENS.

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R-G1
  
R-VAR_AD


 
Reply 3 - Posted by: dman, 12/29/2012 12:18:49 AM     (No. 9088190)

I agree with Mr. Roy and Mr. Thiessen. Over the cliff we go!

Painful, but necessary.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: belwhatter, 12/29/2012 3:46:06 AM     (No. 9088248)

Best reasoning - sheeple won´t think until they hurt.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: Judy W., 12/29/2012 7:12:43 AM     (No. 9088330)

I read this last night and it immediately changed my thinking. Of course we should go over the cliff. The only problem is for Republicans. So far Obama has convinced a majority that everything that happens is the Republicans´ thought and nothing is his fault. Maybe Ann Coulter is right and Republicans should just vote "present" and let Obama have his way so people will see clearly that what happens is his fault. But I think he is so clever about framing the situation and the Republicans are so inept that he would find a way to convince people that everything that ensues is the Republicans´ fault.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: globalwarmer, 12/29/2012 7:17:52 AM     (No. 9088336)

In the financial world it´s called a "correction".

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Reply 7 - Posted by: OhMy, 12/29/2012 7:49:16 AM     (No. 9088368)

The important thing is the welfare of the country so vote against the destructive things Obama wants to do. You will get the blame either way when the results are bad. Rather do the right thing and improve the situation. There is an example in this article where the GOP did the right thing and Obama got the credit. So do the right thing and Obama will get the credit for saving the country. The credit/blame game is lost, save the country!

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Reply 8 - Posted by: cgood, 12/29/2012 8:04:06 AM     (No. 9088393)

This line of thinking adds more appeal to the ´let it burn´ philosophy, which previously just sounded vindictive. Let´s stop enabling the big spenders by shielding the populace (temporarily) from the consequences. Starting today, the republicans need to stop talking about taxes and start talking about overspending 24/7.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: cgood, 12/29/2012 8:08:09 AM     (No. 9088398)

I don´t know why my previous post is linked to an ad...

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Reply 10 - Posted by: Dodge Boy, 12/29/2012 8:41:49 AM     (No. 9088427)

Fiscal cliff cool aid to be sure. But, folks, you ain´t seen nothing yet. This is just a warm up for the big one that comes in another year to three years. I don´t like starting the day this way, just being realistic.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: knarfski, 12/29/2012 8:48:21 AM     (No. 9088435)

Phony, phony, phony--like Mr. Obama.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: knarfski, 12/29/2012 8:58:05 AM     (No. 9088447)

A focus on overspending 24/7..excellent suggestion.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: noproblems, 12/29/2012 9:01:35 AM     (No. 9088455)

it is immoral to burden the next generation without their consent.

we have a federal spending problem.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: M2, 12/29/2012 9:04:44 AM     (No. 9088462)

This IS a good argument: Why should anyone care about the "fiscal cliff" or the debt if so few actually feel it? By allowing the "cliff" to happen, people who are on the dole, bureocrats and others will begin to actually know the consequences of voting themselves free stuff.

I´m all for doing this. If the rest of us have to stand a little toothache for a while, it will be worth it to be able to let Americans who voted for our Cretin-In-Chief know that free stuff isn´t free and that their messiah has feet of clay.

Oh, and screw the Democrats and the backs of the productive they rode in on.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: vesicant, 12/29/2012 9:06:37 AM     (No. 9088467)

"Conservative" bloggers have collectively and individually lost their minds. Given their stellar record in predicting a Romney win, we should now believe that they´ve become clairvoyant economists? As to Avik Roy, his area of expertise is medical care. NOT ECONOMICS! I don´t know what to call this collective insanity. Certainly not obama derangement syndrome, since there is every reason to think scumbama is toxic. But these "let´s go over the cliff" conservatives should at least stop talking about "the American people" needing to feel the hurt. Did I stop being an American when I voted against scumbama? Why penalize those who tried to stop the leftists?

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/roy.htm

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Reply 16 - Posted by: uno, 12/29/2012 9:31:39 AM     (No. 9088498)

I recall in 2009 we said "You can´t spend your way to prosperity" and that we are well on (up) the road to the Obamboozler´s Trickle Up Poverty program. If it is not a clear enough pattern after this many years then you´re blind and stupid, or simply said: a low information Obama voter. We´re going the wrong direction quickly and nothing could please the Socialist Communists more than seeing the United States get poorer and weaker.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: jackburton, 12/29/2012 9:36:26 AM     (No. 9088503)

Clear thinking. and I agree. Two salient points:

FTA: Republicans will never be able to build a political case for less spending if most Americans are insulated from the cost of that spending.

and

FTA: It might well be that the biggest mistake Republicans made during Obama’s first term was forcing the president to extend the Bush tax cuts. At the time, it seemed like a major victory by the newly elected GOP House. But in truth, it was a victory for Obama. Extending the tax cuts shielded the economy from the full brunt of Obama’s economic failures and allowed him to put off job-killing tax increases...

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Reply 18 - Posted by: gone2pot, 12/29/2012 10:06:43 AM     (No. 9088545)

Until then, Republicans need to stop protecting Americans from the consequences of their decisions to elect profligate politicians.

That would be valid if there was not fifty one percent of voters who will NEVER suffer any consequences for their votes. Again, it would be refreshing if a journalist, shoot, I´d take half a journalist to read Rules for Radicals and understand that we are well past "there." With the 17 trillion in federal debt, which is impossible to ever repay (yep, per WH budget charts it is IMPOSSIBLE to pay) not including the 70 plus trillion in unfunded mandates, this fiscal cliff nonsense is merely a pimple on the rear end of consequences.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: bmw50, 12/29/2012 10:54:21 AM     (No. 9088600)

Both parties have fallen prey to offering entitlements for votes. The Democrats have made a carrier at it while Republicans had to make their offerings just to keep up.
There is a fundamental problem with money migrating to the few. Old Israel took care of that by having a Year of Jubilee which returned land to the original owners and wiped out all debts. We don´t have that so the have-nots want wealth redistribution and love Obama´s Marxist policies.
We have a progressive tax in an attempt to punish the prosperous but that hasn´t helped enough.
Then there is corporate greed that neither party wants to address because both parties know where the power lies and respects it.
In a limited way, Republicans have made friends with the devil by not addressing corporate greed and competing with Democrats on entitlement packages. Now they find themselves in a pickle.
Democrats get elected by offering entitlements, they are not going to give it up by limiting spending... never. It´s their bread and butter.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: Butch59, 12/29/2012 10:59:45 AM     (No. 9088602)

The major problem with letting the economy go over the cliff is that Dims will start to re-allocate available money and resources to those who are Dims supporters. Those who are not will be cut off and left out in the cold. You can look for blue states to get the lion´s share of everything. Of course, the Republicans will be blamed eleventeen times a day by the media and dims. After all, THEIR intentions were sooooo good and those wascally republicans just would let them do all the wonderful things they wanted to do./s

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Reply 21 - Posted by: Butch59, 12/29/2012 11:01:42 AM     (No. 9088606)

sorry. Should read "would NOT let them ...."

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Reply 22 - Posted by: chicodon, 12/29/2012 11:20:29 AM     (No. 9088631)

The entire national debt as of yesterday was over $58,000,000,000,000. It puts their petty posturing into perspective. I say drive them all to a physical cliff and push them off.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: Republic Can, 12/29/2012 1:48:09 PM     (No. 9088862)

Embrace the cliff.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: pearlyjo, 12/29/2012 3:56:33 PM     (No. 9089000)

I have a question. Where are the daily polls telling us that Americans are blaming the fiscal cliff situation on Republicans? I would have thought that the Left would have those numbers shoved at us every day for the last week. Where are they? Could it be the polls have been taken and, gasp, they don´t favor our president?

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Reply 25 - Posted by: Franz, 12/29/2012 4:54:59 PM     (No. 9089051)

This article misses a couple of things. The unintended consequences of nearly half of the population not pay income tax only allows people to be deluded into believing they will not be affected by the runaway spending by Obama. Income taxes are only one way the government takes our money. Social Security and Medicare deductions, costly regulations, price increases, wasteful spending and inflation hit everyone! A nearly 20% increase in the amount of the Gross Domestic Product that the government spends means there is that much less left for the private sector.

The article is correct about one thing. For many people it will take real financial pain to make them aware how badly they are being screwed by government in general and the Democrats/Progressives in particular.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: patpgmr, 12/29/2012 5:49:03 PM     (No. 9089106)

One "benefit" of letting the Bush tax cuts expire is that some of those who aren´t paying taxes now will be paying at a 10% tax rate. They will notice it, don´t think they won´t.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: BadgerBill, 12/29/2012 6:07:08 PM     (No. 9089124)

Go over the ´fiscal cliff´ and start over.

Halve the DJIA and start over.

You gotta cut out the cancer/poison in order to heal.

Throw the career bums out!

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Reply 28 - Posted by: ColonialAmerican1623, 12/29/2012 10:18:40 PM     (No. 9089338)

If you play, we have to pay (for Washington)

When Washington cuts their own spending and foreign aid, I will give one ioda.

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Media-Suppressed Nevada Case History
Shines Truth on Government Ranch invaders

24 replie(s)
Canada Free Press, by Judi McLeod    Original Article
Posted By: snowcloud- 4/11/2014 12:08:32 PM     Post Reply
Coming clearly through the throbbing of helicopters and the roar of the SUVS of the feds harassing the Cliven Bundy Ranch, patriots there for Bundy should “tell it to the judge”. There is mainstream media-suppressed case history in Nevada the feds are desperately trying to keep under wraps. Chief Judge Robert C. Jones of the Federal District Court of Nevada smacked down high-handed, abusive feds, sending the pretend cowboys riding roughshod over Western ranchers and property owners back to their cobweb-laced offices in 2013. In spite of their 200 armed snipers with boy toys in tow, those Stetson-wearing feds hunkering down on Cliven


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