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Religious Stirrers
American Spectator, by Jonathan Aitken

Original Article

Posted By:MissMolly, 11/27/2012 6:11:05 AM

CARDINAL MARTINI SHOOK UP a heady intellectual cocktail for the Catholic Church before he passed away. His recently published last testament has stunned the Vatican and set the faithful arguing about the direction of Catholicism in the 21st century. At nearly the same time, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, the retiring leader of 100 million worldwide Anglicans, has been stirring up his flock with valedictory messages. The lives of Cardinal Martini and Archbishop Williams share common themes. Both have held the highest academic positions and been recognized as great scholars, having produced over 50 works


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Reply 1 - Posted by: raphaela, 11/27/2012 6:56:31 AM     (No. 9035454)

There is a problem in the Church today - no faith. No wonder the flock is lost.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: The Architect, 11/27/2012 8:04:16 AM     (No. 9035538)

Martini is dead wrong about why some churches are empty. The reason most people leave the Church is not because they are too Conservative and traditional. Its because they are too liberal and are succumbing to pop culture. There is something to be said about tradition and it´s trappings and universal timeless principles. Why should someone convert to Catholicism if Catholicism keeps changing? The "Cafeteria Catholics" that Martini was trying to reach will not follow the Church if they don´t like some aspect of dogma. They will flock to the the next fad. They are like the current occupant of the White House, alot of talk and emotion, but no substance.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: Deagin, 11/27/2012 8:12:14 AM     (No. 9035556)

No faith? Tell that to the 1000 people who on Monday attended the novena at the Miraculous medal shrine in Philadelphia. There are numerous devotions like that all the time throughout the country. The Catholic Church looks very different to those of us who are devoted.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: plumnellie, 11/27/2012 8:12:46 AM     (No. 9035559)

Empty dogma is the sauce that is killing the Catholic goose. My Catholic friends say they travel long distances to find a conservative priest to do mass. The one´s close are filled with Greens, Socialists, Anti Americans, and social engineering from the leaders. These are the empty churches. The one she attends is moderately full.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: Attila DiMedici, 11/27/2012 8:46:33 AM     (No. 9035626)

The reason that both of these men failed is that they want to "modernize" Church doctrine. I am neither an Anglican, nor a Catholic, and I believe that both Communions have serious flaws. My own denomination has flaws. The key to addressing the flaws is to seek to overturn doctrines and dogmas that are not consistent with biblical writings rather than trying to make Church teaching acceptable to "modern" society.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: Quaestio, 11/27/2012 8:48:36 AM     (No. 9035629)

It´s why the churches in Europe are empty and more and more Europeans are converting to Islam. They´re idiots of course. Some of them are women who claim they like the hijab because it stops them from being treated as sexual objects. Then they´ll turn around and tell you that Republicans are evil and want to control their bodies.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: raphaela, 11/27/2012 9:23:40 AM     (No. 9035698)

The leaders lack faith - not the members - although there are significant numbers of Catholics who pick and choose the doctrine that they choose to believe - obviously helped along by the likes of their misguided and unbelieving leaders like Martini. How many people do you think he influenced with his ´scholarly´ mind?

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Reply 8 - Posted by: JoElla Bee, 11/27/2012 9:51:26 AM     (No. 9035761)

Have you ever wondered about there being so many opinions, so many churches, and all claiming to represent the word of God?

Christ prayed for unity, that we all believe the same thing, so all would know that we are his. (John 17) That doesn´t sound like unity in diversity.

Rather than listening to man, regardless of his "great mind", and taking his word for what the Bible says or means, each of us would benefit more by heeding the apostle Paul´s admonition to Timothy (2 Timothy 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". Because, (2 Timothy 3:16,17) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

And, the apostle Paul in the letter to the Galatians " ... though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed". (Galatians 1:8,9)

Too few of us seem to follow the Berean example. " These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so". (Acts 17:11)

The words that will judge us are from the great mind of God.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: Eheu Fugaces, 11/27/2012 10:08:16 AM     (No. 9035799)

"No man can serve two masters". Williams and Martini have attempted to do both, with abysmal results.

Williams cheerfully admitted was "just an old Red" (Marxist). He believes that Christianity teaches that you should rob Peter to pay Paul, whether Paul deserves to be paid or not, but because Paul is deemed more pitiful than Peter. He believes that you should covet your neighbor´s goods, provided the clergy determines you are more deserving of the fruits of his prudence and labor than he his. Etc., etc. etc.

As for Martini, he is just another Gramscian relativist modernizer whose point of view has helped to empty churches across Catholic Europe.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: jimmiet, 11/27/2012 10:59:54 AM     (No. 9035905)

The church not just catholics need more fisherman and fewer navel gazing ecumenicals. The Bible is either the word of God or it isn´t. The words of men are subject to every whimsical thought that proceed from the sins of all men. God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow and is not subject to cultural distortions.

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