Although I may not be the best Catholic I can be, at least I know my religion. It drives me crazy when politicians like Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Sen. John Kerry, VP Joe Biden and Gov. Andrew Cuomo who consider themselves Roman Catholics express such ignorance of its dogma. I blame their pastors for continuing to serve them in spite of their public heresy promoting issues that are against Church doctrine. But it is also very unnerving to hear President Obama twist Christian ideology to suit his campaign rhetoric.
I'm not Catholic, but I would say that the church always played up to the rich & famous catholics(Kennedys for example).Ted in Mich.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
Rather Read, 9/27/2012 8:12:43 AM (No. 8892931)
I'm Catholic to the Max and will be one as long as I live, but I do think that the Church (and I am talking to you late Cardinal Cushing) should have smacked the Kennedy men - especially old Joe Kennedy - upside the head.
If only... as a devout and practicing RC, my disgust for the handling of renegade politicians and the permissive annulment situation saddens. The "abusive priest" scandal is mostly bogus money-grubbing. But the soft response to heresy is appalling.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Quit letting politicans play Christian and drag your church through the mud with the pro murder doctrine of abortion! Excommunication until they repent. And if it doesnt seem to bother them, then you know they were just Catholic for show and not for real. Excommunication for just cause should drive any Christian to repent! Supporting abortion in any form is just cause for ex communication from any Christian assembly!
If Kathleen Sebelius is a true Catholic, then I'm the Pope.
Look, the fact that the Catholic Church does not take action against such obvious CINOs is an indictment of its leadership. What this says about them is that they will tolerate prominent pseudo-Catholics in order to not rock the boat and continue getting the benefits (favorable laws, prestige, donations, etc.) of keeping them. The church 's teachings may be noble, but its leadership needs to re-think its policies in such cases. Making a deal with the deal does not end well, as the recent Obama-Sebelius policy on abortifacient coverage illustrates.
I never hear this brought up. He has never, ever been baptized into the Church. He has no right to call himself a Christian. He may actually believe that it is OK to just style himself as a Christian and that is good enough, but he would not be allowed to join any church I know without having been baptized.
FTA: "These are perilous times with powerful entities engaged in a war against religion and the Church must use its full authority to thwart the attacks." Although not a Catholic, I am a pastor. If Christian leaders compromise the integrity of their faith for reasons of political or personal expediency, they have lost their authority, their power and their witness. That is beyond tragic.
Two quick points, 1) when conservatives cite the scriptures the left screams, "separation of church and state" but they don't give a hoot about that when a lefty cites scripture and 2) Jesus said to all of us, "YOU give" he didn't say, "Rome should tax you more so it can keep most of the money and give crumbs to the poor people it likes" I doubt that gospel message would have survived 5 minutes let alone 2000 years.
Excellent article. I admire organizations that have stringent rules and goals, even though everyone fails to stand up to them from time to time. I do not admire any person or organization that does not strive to be honest and in their supposed beliefs. Honesty and integrity are characteristics that are easily lost when organizations and people openly defy them. It seems more and more people are losing these characteristics, many of them are our supposed leaders. That is why they get no, or minimum, respect, like those mentioned in the article. As imperfect as I am, many of our national leaders would not meet the minimum standards of character, honesty, and integrity required to enter into my sphere of friends and family.
Please Pope, don't do it. If you excommunicate the Kennedys, Jon F'ing Cary, Cuomo and Piglosi, we taxpayers will be stuck paying for the kegger they throw in celebration. We are so indebt now that we really can’t afford it.
These clods have excommunicated themselves. The scandal is thus...clergy still let them receive the sacraments. Regarding Joe Biden. he has been chastised by at least 15 Bishops. Not of his diocese. Dolan and Chaput to name two. Problem is at least to me is that we the faithful don't see this. We are scandalized by their action and words and see that they continue with their "church teachings." I wish these clods would be publically (sp) excommunicated. State it as it is. I believe persecution is knocking at the door.
The Roman Catholic Institution (along with many other religious organizations) made a deal with the devil with the 501 c 3 status. They made their beds. They should lie in it....and let the stink permiate.
They have been bought.
Holding out hope for some moral enlightenment with this origanization - when it comes to these congresscritters is ridiculously naive.
I am a Catholic at the "local level". And that is about it. My support stops there.
Thank you to Alicia Colon for having the courage to state the obvious – the leadership of the Catholic Church (from parish priest to exalted Cardinal) has been lax and lacking. Ms. Colon states, “…Church must use its full authority to thwart the attacks. Weeding out the CINOs - Catholics in name only - is one step. Censuring the religious in the communities and universities is another. There are many priests and nuns in academia that are pro-choice and also promote same sex marriage.” Unfortunately, the instances cited by Ms. Colon are more and more the rule rather than the exception. Those that would like to do the ‘weeding’ are called old-fashioned and judgmental.
Unfortunately, like everything else in this new bizarro world that we live in, the Church has seemingly turned upside down and inside out. It appears as though most Catholics who fill the church parking lots now, are the pseudo-Catholics, the ones who embrace the new relaxed doctrine and who also embrace the liberal philosophy of government charity for all in every circumstance. The hard-working, family-raising, personally-charitable, rules-minding, adherents-to-the-basic-tenets Catholics are made to feel unwelcome in parishes that they have attended and supported for decades. The ‘new’ Catholics are not entirely to blame; it is rather their priests and diocesan hierarchy, who continue to fail them by neglecting to teach and refusing to lead. Consequently, the leaders of the Church no longer inspire adherence or respect. In too many circumstances, the teachings and standards of the real Catholic Church have been abandoned by its leaders for the sakes of privilege and popularity and that fact is sad, tragic, and ultimately devastating.
Sorry, Alicia. Your proposal will not be acted upon. The path to advancement in the Roman Catholic Church is through money. How does a Priest become a Monsignor? By bringing in the dollars, that's how. The Priest cossets and comforts those of great wealth, giving them preferment and praise. In return they bless the Church with money. If you are a Priest and want to be a Bishop (and eventually a Cardinal), you must pay your way. You will never get anywhere by excommunicating the rich, just because they defy the teachings of the Church. The Roman Catholic Church is interested in only one thing: preserving itself. And that takes money. How did the child abuse endure for years? Because publicity would have cut into donations. So you will just have to put up with Pelosi, Kerry, and all the other faux Catholics. That is just the way it is. It is rather like the Mormons. They dare not take action against Harry Reid: he is too rich and too highly placed to be censured for his doctrinal failures, and his obvious slander of a fellow Mormon.
Excommunication? Who is to say that this has not happened? If a person receives a letter from his/her bishop, it is confidential. Unless the recipient makes the fact known, the church's action does not become public knowledge. Egregious behavior if continued will eventually cause the Catholic Church to speak out, but in this case, the officials probably would rather not make an issue of the action. Someone should ask Nancy Pelosi if she still is a member in good standing with the Catholic Church. Seriously.........some hard hitting questions are in order here.
While we do not "achieve" grace, it is also by our acts that we may, by the Grace of God, receive more grace. Just as when we neglect our prayer life, we naturally know and feel that we have distanced ourselves from our Father and thereby the abundance of His graces.
In our righteous indignation we seek justice on earth that is more immediate, wanting to see these heretics fired from the Church. We want them excommunicated in our sight.
While the Church doesn't want to make a scene to please the masses, but is kind to approach the wayward lamb with admonition and concern for their soul. Their choice to reject the admonition and repentance makes them stiff necked and obstinate and they have, however quietly, excommunicated themselves.
When posters start going off on tangents it is pretty clear that they have not read the posted article.
This is an especially good one.
Conservatives are compassionate and serve the community through individual acts of charity and donations to foundations and organizations that have the experience and spiritual guidance to view their recipients as children of God deserving of mercy. Government checks reduce these same individuals to objects fueling bureaucratic power.
Do read it all. To not do so is a disservice to the writer and yourselves, and to those who come to this thread and see your posts and scratch their heads - huh?
Grace is not earned it was fully paid at the cross. To attempt to add anything is blasphemy. However James said 'faith without works is dead'. I don't think government enabling qualifies as works of faith. Don't forget the main thing the Kennedys and Pelosis and Bidens, Reids and Obamas as well as the rest of us will one day have to answer to a higher authority than the Catholic Church.
Apparently the catholic church is permeated with a bunch of hypocrites who believe they can sell salvation and grace. When I almost married a catholic 35 years ago the local priest gave her a cost estimate for the annulment I would need to keep her in good graces and her future husband from the gates of hell. Pass.
FTA: "I remember reading a novel by the author Taylor Caldwell who warned that charity that takes away a person's willingness to work is evil. That may not be her exact wording but that was the message I retained and I have witnessed the truth of her words for decades."
We all need to have more courage and stand up for true charity and compassion. Even in the Bible, there were conditions to charity- the recipient had to be a good steward, and make something of it. Charity was not supposed to be a never ending gravy train. Recipients were supposed to be held somewhat accountable for their behavior as well.
As American Catholics and Christians, we have enjoyed free practice of our faith, to the point that we have taken it for granted, to our own peril.
#22 - Regarding Joe Biden, this story isn't perfect but its a start. This summer he visited Rehoboth Beach, DE and went to Sunday morning mass at a local Catholic Church. First thing is the place was packed but NO ONE offered Biden their seat! Secondly and more importantly, as Biden was making his way up the isle to receive communion (two rows of people receive communion by either Priest on one side or Eucharistic Minister next to priest) The Priest noticed Biden in his line, whispered to the E.M., and they switched places prior to Biden getting Communion. While its not perfect, at least that Priest refused to serve Biden Communion.
Actually, the Catholic Church has a VERY clear position on the individual vs government role in charity. The individual must lead and the governmental involvement must be limited to the most local level possible. Government involvement at a national level inevitably leads to lost freedom and vast inefficiency.
So now the Church is supposed to police who is a CINO and who isn't? Really? How? By giving a test? Uh, just a thought but is it the local priest's job to pick and choose who gets to participate? Isn't that between you and God? I'm a bit surprised by some of the posters here. The last thing I want is my local priest administering loyalty teats.
I wondered how long it would take for the faith/works crowd to chime in, but I do appreciate the civility. The truth is that you are required to perform works of charity to be saved. If you don't perform works, you don't really have faith. Whether you "earn" grace is semantics. Works shows your faith. You need both.
If the bishops had an ounce of love in their hearts for these disgraceful Catholic politicians, they'd apply Canon 915 as a "medicinal" penalty to shock them --- to enlighten their minds and strengthen their wills unto repentance.
If the bishops don't, they are themselves implicated, and in a way that will not permit them to take the word "hell" as metaphor.
We are coming close to leaving the church over this issue. When I think of what pelosi and sibelius say and are working towards, I'm revolted to the point of feeling physically ill. I know I too am a sinner but I have trouble understanding why I'm continuing to sit in the same pews with people who can turn a blind eye and vote for people who put the right to kill (babies) in their platform. At least those same people had the decency to remove God.
Even as a child, I always heard that the Catholic church was for sale. I heard about the Kennedys and how you could get divorced if you had enough money but not if you didn't. I thought it was ludicrous that you could disappear a 20 year marriage if you just had the money. The Kennedys (Joan, Jacqueline, Mama) along with the Kerrys, Pelosis, Sebelius--all do as they please without any serious censure.
The Protestant church also has problems of course, but this is I think a common perception of Catholicism. I know lots of Catholics, and I only know ONE who actually tries to follow the rules. The ones I know are very proud of themselves when they make it to Christmas mass once in a blue moon.
FTA: ''I blame their pastors for continuing to serve them in spite of their public heresy promoting issues that are against Church doctrine.''
The liberal leaning ''priests'' amongst US also like the very trappings of life they rail against in their Sunday sermons. Sound familiar when 0bama wants to extort the top 1% wage earners for more of THEIR money. He's a millionaire now. If you don't believe me, see it in the homes & staffs [yearly costs] that each individual Church has [we found out that since the priest pedophile scandals, that they are treated alone so not as to bankrupt the Holy Mother Church].
FTA: ''Redistribution by the government is theft and the continuing policy promoting class envy is in direct abuse of the tenth commandment-Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.''
That we engage though government to do this is WRONG. What ever happened to separation of Church & State, or have the two become confused in their greed to turn all to poor and therefore needing ''their'' assistances? Helping others by stealing from those that have is...stealing. Simply put, it's all about power. Those with your money will have it and eventually will tell you what to do.
I am Catholic and believe many simple things [truths]. Having enough means never being sated in His Love for me, but always looking to share It with others.
Oh, and Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Sen. John Kerry, VP Joe Biden and Gov. Andrew Cuomo, and any Catholic corrupted official should be publicly excommunicated and humiliated as a sign that we don't fear them here, but God's wrath in our judgment for not doing so.
Wow. Lot of ignorance and antiCatholic bigotry for one thread. Bonus for those in the know about how priests become bishops and bishops cardinals. Such willful ignorance must truly makes yours at the name of every liberal cocktail party in your area code.
This a facinating discussion among believers. I will throw in my two cents. You go to heaven only through Jesus Christ. Period - end of story. If you accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour you will recieve the Holy Spirit. Once you are driven by the Holy Spirit you will do good works.
Abortion and gay marriage are not part of God's plan.
So much ado about my use of the word grace. I was not speaking about Sanctifying Grace which is a gift but rather the lower case meaning of mercy, kindness, goodness that results from living our faith and performing corporal works of mercy.
#56 you encapsulated the message here - that abortion and gay marriage are not in accord with God's laws. Alicia is right to want to expose these Godless catholics in name only - let's have a little bit of excommunication, and purge the ranks.
Excommunication or thousands and thousands of dollars in contributions and party invitations........
I have YET to see a church that actually practices what they teach. Let me reprase that.....I have yet to see a church, that hasnt been labled whacky, practice what it preaches. Historically, any organization gets more corrupt the bigger it gets. And the Catholic church sits near the top of that hill.
All right -- I will contribute one more time. We go to the Moody Church in Chicago. Pastor Lutzer has been there 32 years. He speaks around the world and no matter where he is -- he never varies from the Bible. We all need to go back to the Bible. It doesn't change over time and our Constitution shouldn't change over time either.
How about removing the first three words (To earn grace) from this and moving on to read and digest the rest of this excellent essay.
...every Christian needs to voluntarily perform acts of mercy. Redistribution by the government is theft and the continuing policy promoting class envy is in direct abuse of the tenth commandment-Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.
We too often get lost in semantics and showing off our theological expertise, thus missing the forest for the trees.
Alicia Colon, who speaks from experience, had a lot to share with us. To slice and dice a mere three words is absurd.
The real reason for the article seems to have been buried in the fallout. That reason is to point out Barack Obama is using the words of our Lord for his personal political gain. He is at fault for bringing so many Godless into his administration and the American people at fault for not removing the Congress critters so mired in muck from office. God helps those who help their selves. As the Hebrews were essentially told when they sought a mortal king -- do so and you are on your own in matters not of the Lord.
That's not true. While the church is the one true church founded by Christ it is not true that salvation is not available to all who live a good life. In fact a U.S. Jesuit priest, Leonard Feeney, who defended the strict interpretation of the Roman Catholic doctrine "outside the Church there is no salvation", arguing that baptism of blood and baptism of desire are unavailing was excommunicated in 1953. Feeney was later fully reconciled to the Church before his death
Remember -- Pope Benedict met with Nancy Pelosi on her visit to Rome only in her position as Speaker of the House. He would not allow pictures to be taken with her and he admonished her for her positions. On her return, her bishop called her in for a meeting. While he would not give the details of the meeting, he reminded her of the Church's position on many matters. But, Nancy is so thick-headed that she does, indeed, seem to qualify for public censure at this point.
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