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  Topic: Trump Is Wrong: Germany Does Not
Owe ‘Vast Sums of Money to NATO’
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Trump Is Wrong: Germany Does Not
Owe ‘Vast Sums of Money to NATO’

Daily Beast, by Allison Graves

Original Article

Posted By:Drive, 3/20/2017 6:32:55 AM

Less than 24 hours after meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, President Donald Trump took to Twitter to criticize Germany for not keeping up with its defense payments to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and the United States. “Despite what you have heard from the FAKE NEWS, I had a GREAT meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel,” Trump wrote in a tweet March 18. “Nevertheless, Germany owes vast sums of money to NATO & the United States must be paid more for the powerful, and very expensive, defense it provides to Germany!” Trump has repeatedly called on NATO member countries to contribute

      


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Reply 1 - Posted by: uno, 3/20/2017 6:47:00 AM     (No. 11195329)

Protecting Europe is a very expensive proposition. Presenting a bill is an excellent way to get the point across! Getting paid is not really the point.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: GardenGal, 3/20/2017 7:07:56 AM     (No. 11195343)

Why I wish that Trump would stop tweeting. The article is correct that Germany is not spending the required amount on defense and thus shirking responsibilities but they do not pay directly for US forces. They do pay indirectly in letting us have bases in Germany and in various other ways. The United States military is not a mercenary force. As to how much Germany is paying to NATO and how much they are supposed to be paying (not their defense budget but the Nato budget) I don´t know.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: thelmalou, 3/20/2017 7:20:09 AM     (No. 11195357)

If only five for tries paid and Germany isn´t one of them, then they owe.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: thelmalou, 3/20/2017 7:20:40 AM     (No. 11195358)

Five countries paid...

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Reply 5 - Posted by: Muguy, 3/20/2017 7:25:30 AM     (No. 11195362)

If someone wants to really make an account, we are still owed money for saving Europe a SECOND time, and and then helping to pay for the damage done in rebuilding Europe after WW II.

IF we enter into an agreement like NATO, everyone has to help pay the bill.

When something like the United Nations is formed and we end up paying more than our part while others nations don´t do their part, it ends up being something where we spend a lot of money to help others and it becomes expected.

Whenever there this a crisis or disaster somewhere in the world, we are there to help.
We still have a military presence in Germany, but it is shrinking.

Germany became an economic power because she was rebuilt. Merkel is sowing the seeds of destruction by allowing an invasion of people who do not want to be German citizens. They need us more than they know.




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Reply 6 - Posted by: god of irony, 3/20/2017 7:27:02 AM     (No. 11195364)

#2, Having served 3+ years in the Army stationed in Germany I can assure they don´t "let us have bases". We are there to provide them protection and it is very expensive.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: IowaDad, 3/20/2017 7:28:53 AM     (No. 11195367)

Germany agreed to spend 2% of its GDP on defense. It actually spends 1.19%. Most other European nations are similarly way below target, and have been for two decades. The is no legally binding contract enforcing 2%, but there is undoubtedly an agreed political statement of intent.

The base question is why should the US pay for the military defense of nations who don´t maintain their own forces? We are shielding them from aggression, while they are raking in the cash.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: uno, 3/20/2017 7:34:04 AM     (No. 11195370)

I should say: Getting paid for the past is not really the point. Getting them to contribute in the future is.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: steveW, 3/20/2017 7:38:16 AM     (No. 11195377)

President Trump is of course right. And it´s far from just Germany that freeloads off (and profits from) American military protection and the American nuclear umbrella. Add to that the grudging unwillingness of much of Europe to side with the US on the War on Terror (shouts to convict W as a "war criminal" were loudest from Europe), and I´d say "vast sums" is pretty much accurate.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: chillijilli, 3/20/2017 7:46:32 AM     (No. 11195382)

Trump´s tweets seem to be a constant problem. Many understand that he´s a businessman who just wants to get the bottom line out there and figures his people will straighten out his words for him, later if necessary...BUT... some wish that this very smart negotiator would learn that his words matter and he´d have a lot less resistance if his people did some tweet-tweaking prior to hitting submit.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: M-79, 3/20/2017 8:05:39 AM     (No. 11195399)

I was stationed in Germany in the mid-90´s. As the US began to "draw down" after the Wall came down I remember a German asking me, "If the Americans leave who will protect us?"
Most of the Western European countries didn´t have to pay for their own national defense b/c the US military was in Europe. They could spend all that extra money on socialist programs and lecture us on how great Socialism is.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: Blue-Z-Anna, 3/20/2017 8:10:41 AM     (No. 11195402)

Trump´s Twitter habits might be embarrassing to a mere mortal politician but The Donald is largely immune to the muttering of the ´mean girls´.

That´s the beauty of Trump.

He may blow through the details like a bull in a china shop but he has proven to be much more of an honest enthusiast than a lying politician.

There is a huge well of forgiveness and a soft place in the hearts of nice people for those who speak the truth without fear or favor.

It´s the Trump effect.

It´s like riding on the roof as you go through the car wash !

Dangerous....exciting....cleansing...and...

Refreshing !!!

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Reply 13 - Posted by: kate318, 3/20/2017 8:24:19 AM     (No. 11195415)

Trump´s "constant tweeting" is only a problem to those who take everything he says literally. He is a grandiose NYC street brawler who frequently indulges in hyperbole. It´s his style, and I, personally, get a kick out of it. I always understand the point he is trying to communicate. It´s a new day, people. Get with the program, or you are going to be miserable for the next four years.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: greggojo, 3/20/2017 8:44:58 AM     (No. 11195440)

I like Mr. Trump´s tweets especially as I watch the hysterical blow back from the msm as they go scattering like roaches from the beam of a flashlight.

And for all of you doubters, consider the alternative. Can you imagine how disheartened and disgusted all of us would be had the "inevitable" HRC been elected? Think about the exponential govt. corruption and progressive/federal govt. expansion. OMG

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Reply 15 - Posted by: Miss Lamb Chop, 3/20/2017 9:04:08 AM     (No. 11195456)

Trump is correct in asking for Germany to pay what is previously owed. It would be like only payimg part of the tax bill. What happens, interst & penalties. Trump is only asking for the original dept.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: CharlyG, 3/20/2017 9:08:00 AM     (No. 11195460)

Why is it so many people know better than the man in charge.

This play by play is not necessary to our existence and just muddies the water.

WAIT TIL THE END RESULT. listening to the MSM, and reacting to every detail is a fool´s errand. WE may have a right to know how the sausage is made, but we really don´t have a need to know the process inside and out.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: gone2pot, 3/20/2017 9:35:14 AM     (No. 11195506)

This is really simple and NEVER addressed; and the reason why so many nations can be socialist yet continue to afford their free handouts in spite of their extend and pretend debts; WE provide the free world´s national security, period. The EU, Canada, Japan, India, Australia pay almost nothing in comparison to us and WE provide for their defense, PERIOD (Total dollars spent per nation is more realistic and accurate than spending percentage of GDP, btw). Free health care in Canada and most EU nations and it´s supposedly great? They have NO defense bills relative to the USA because WE defend them and we have been doing so since WW2, PERIOD. It´s something our Marxists ignore when they compare us to the "great socialist nations of the EU" where the government provides everything for "free" and therefore so should we. Need proof?

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/us-military-spending-vs-world/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

https://armscontrolcenter.org/u-s-defense-spending-vs-global-defense-spending/

So yes, Germany as well as every NATO nation owes vast sums of money to NATO.

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Reply 18 - Posted by: earlybird, 3/20/2017 9:56:36 AM     (No. 11195537)

Germany and the fact-checkers are once again splitting hairs over President Trump’s rhetoric. The truth is that they, like the other members, are not paying their share, a share that was set forth and agreed to by all of them.

Here is an article just posted that they and everyone else need to read carefully.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/us-pays-2214-nato-budget-germany-1465-13-allies-pay-below-1

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Reply 19 - Posted by: mickturn, 3/20/2017 10:17:28 AM     (No. 11195568)

Germany is USING the US to watch their back (and it costs a fortune)...and we just keep doing it!

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Reply 20 - Posted by: TexasRose, 3/20/2017 10:27:05 AM     (No. 11195583)

Plus, there´s that little thing called GRATITUDE. Just sayin´.

Americans have big hearts, but when we´ve been taken advantage of and then repeatedly slapped in the face... well, there´s just so much we´ll take!!

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Reply 21 - Posted by: Adam, 3/20/2017 10:34:36 AM     (No. 11195589)

From the article, "NATO, formally the North Atlantic Treaty Organization…" Formally? Currently. While not all the countries in it are North Atlantic nations, the name has never been officially changed. Based on that egregious gaffe, I don´t think I will be taking this reporter´s word for it.

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Reply 22 - Posted by: Thos Weatherby, 3/20/2017 10:45:03 AM     (No. 11195601)

#2 If you look at the entire expense that Germany benefits, they do owe us a lot of money. We don´t necessarily need the bases in Germany. They could be elsewhere at an tremendous savings to the US. Trump knows what he´s saying. He hasn´t been wrong yet.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: TOOTALL, 3/20/2017 11:51:39 AM     (No. 11195657)

If Germany has been paying slightly over half of what they COMMITTED to pay, and that was added up over the years, and interest applied, do you think that would constitute a lot of money?

The article says they owe money to NATO....more like they owe money to those who paid for them in Nato, which would be mostly the US!

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Reply 24 - Posted by: dvc, 3/20/2017 12:05:39 PM     (No. 11195674)

It is very, very simple math. Germany has been paying less than their agreed 2%, only a bit more than half, actually, so they are shirking and they owe NATO billions. Perhaps not actually to the USA, but to NATO - via their own military.

Pay up! Even 1.99% is not OK.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: bighambone, 3/20/2017 12:07:03 PM     (No. 11195676)

Germany is a highly developed and rich country that would be nowhere near where it is today in economic terms if it were not for the USA, the Marshal Plan, and the large numbers of American troops who have been stationed in Germany since the after the Second World War to defend Germany. There is no question that Germany should ante up their annual 2% of GNP for defense, and also pay the freight for all American troops stationed in Germany to defend that country.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: arkfamily, 3/20/2017 12:17:03 PM     (No. 11195691)

Over the weekend, I read that Trump said Germany owes the United States. Now it is Nato? Maybe they can´t get their story correct.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: kono, 3/20/2017 12:21:32 PM     (No. 11195697)

The image of NATO as some sort of shared wall surrounding the membership is fallacious, as there is no tangible structure defending against their shared threats. So there isn´t some sort of thing that is provided and needs to be paid for, for which a member´s share can be quantified and billed. The missile defense shield that is often proposed and debated would be one, if it were ever actually implemented.

But members keeping up their own defenses IS that "wall", and a weak country represents a weak spot in that "wall", which compromises the security of that country and makes her neighbors more vulnerable to flank attacks. Itemizing what is missing due to that shortfall seems like it would require a much larger shared bureaucracy than is present or desired. That´s where other members of NATO have shirked; but that doesn´t really seem quantifiable for the purpose of monetary compensation.

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Reply 28 - Posted by: Rumblehog, 3/20/2017 12:24:14 PM     (No. 11195701)

Why is the U.S.A. still funding the "Keep Europe Free" movement??
Shouldn´t the Euros be taking care of their own business by now?

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Reply 29 - Posted by: Hermit_Crab, 3/20/2017 12:29:35 PM     (No. 11195715)

Wish I could find the link.

I read yesterday that the ´welfare´ money Demona Merkel pays to her muzzie invaders, she considers as being part of her defense spending, So from her ´calculations´ she is spending more than required

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Reply 30 - Posted by: little guy, 3/20/2017 12:32:10 PM     (No. 11195722)

Excuse me but Germany was supposed to spend $77 billion a year helping NATO (by spending that amount on its military) but Germany only spends $48 billion a year. That´s $29 BILLION less --- PER YEAR! Work that out since 9/11 and you get a $464 billion shortfall.

Every bullet fired by NATO, every gallon of gas, every gun, every uniform and every gallon of paint is supposed to be shared on a pro rata basis. Germany has been coming up short for decades and enjoying the free ride and protection from Uncle Sap.

Pay up, Angela, instead of giving welfare to people trying to slit your people´s throats!

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Reply 31 - Posted by: Chuzzles, 3/20/2017 12:34:39 PM     (No. 11195726)

Uncle Sam´s footing of the bill for defending Europe for the past number of decades has allowed the Europeans to indulge in their failed and stupid social engineering programs.

Now Trump wants to recoup some of that cost, along with expectations that Europe will start paying their own way.

Boy are the addicts of all the social benefits programs going to throw an Epic hissy if this comes to pass.

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Reply 32 - Posted by: chicodon, 3/20/2017 12:48:52 PM     (No. 11195748)

That´s right. They only owe considerable amounts of money. Not vast.

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Reply 33 - Posted by: O.G.´s Mom, 3/20/2017 1:13:47 PM     (No. 11195772)

I read the entire Daily Beast article. And when I got down to the end, I agreed, Germany does owe money. If they are supposed to pay 2 percent of their GDP to NATO and Merkel pays less than that, whether it´s 1.5 percent or less, and for how long have they been shorting the fund, then guess what folks as usual Trump is 100 percent correct. Germany needs to pay up, now.

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Reply 34 - Posted by: hoosiergirl71, 3/20/2017 2:26:58 PM     (No. 11195834)

Just to put a finer point on this discussion, I would remind you all that "The Government" has NO money of its´ own. Those billions are monies the citizens of America earn by working for it, for the most part. The US citizens are paying unholy tons of money to "defend" the freedom of other countries while piling up trillions!!! of debt here.

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