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  Topic: Fiscal Cliff ‘Plan B’
Is Dead: Now What?
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Fiscal Cliff ‘Plan B’
Is Dead: Now What?

ABC News, by Jonathan Karl

Original Article

Posted By:StormCnter, 12/21/2012 4:57:50 AM

The defeat of his Plan B — Republicans pulled it when it became clear it would be voted down — is a big defeat for Speaker of the House John Boehner. It demonstrates definitively that there is no fiscal cliff deal that can pass the House on Republican votes alone. Boehner could not even muster the votes to pass something that would only allow tax rates on those making more than $1 million to go up. Boehner’s Plan B ran into opposition from conservative and tea party groups -including Heritage Action, Freedom Works and the Club for Growth –

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: M Stuart, 12/21/2012 5:36:05 AM     (No. 9077143)

I saw Bill Bennett talking to Sean Hannity, and I thought Bill was going to cry.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: uno_thatguy, 12/21/2012 5:44:00 AM     (No. 9077145)

Tell the demns to take a high jump in a short doorjamb then go home for CHRISTmas! This "cliff" is just a tiny bar ditch compared to the crevasse we´re about to topple into if the brilliant (as in imbecilic) demn leaders in the Senate don´t pass a decent budget and stop spending NOW for crying out loud.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: Jethro bo, 12/21/2012 5:50:57 AM     (No. 9077149)

It will hurt but it will hurt everyone. And it will signal that the free ride is not so free anymore. Sure, the bums and the welfare types will not worry about taxes, but many will no longer have unemployment. And the pressure to be reasonable with our money will be greater since more of us will be paying into the system. When almost half don´t pay anything in income taxes, it is hard to feel the pain. Now that most will be affected, they will know how painful our goobernment has become. And maybe enough will hurt to actually want to do something about the evil that has infested our goobernment. Or...they will just blame the rich and never hold the responsible parties accountable.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: mws50, 12/21/2012 6:20:57 AM     (No. 9077169)

The House controls everything. The only way democrats win is if the House caves into their ridiculous demands for more spending. That message was driven home to Boehner last night.

Now, lets cut a penny from every dollar in every department´s budget, with a demand that it does not affect the end users of each department. Use the 2011 budget. This will be a minuscule start on reducing the fat in the bureaucracy of the federal government.

And tell the Senate democrats to pass this budget or face a shut down of the federal government. As soon as Michelle figures out this will put a hurt on her numerous vacations, Obama will sign the bill.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: strike3, 12/21/2012 6:24:11 AM     (No. 9077172)

Now what? Create a responsible budget, stop the pork and the foolish spending. Kill obamacare, shut down fifty or more percent of the bloated bureaucracy. There, that didn´t take weeks of negotiation.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: suedotsue, 12/21/2012 6:39:08 AM     (No. 9077185)

This article leaves the impression that 3 pressure groups are to blame for what happened. That isn´t how it happened. I listened to Mark Levin´s show last night during the vote. He interviewed several GOP House members over the course of the show. Such as Jim Jordan of Ohio before the vote, Louie Gohmert of Texas, and Tim Scott of South Carolina after the vote. Mr. Levin said he was told the turning point was a vote on a rule of some kind, not the actual Plan B. 13 conservatives voted against the rule. That vote somehow made Boehner/Cantor/McCarthy believe they would have big problems if they pushed the vote. Mr. Levin read the 13 wonderful names. 4 of them are people who aren´t returning so were able to vote their conscience without fear of Boehner or lobbyists. Anyhow, Mark did a great job.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: pineledger, 12/21/2012 6:43:53 AM     (No. 9077189)

You don´t see Democrats squabbling among themselves.

We need to get our act together and support Boehner.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: Fiesta del sol, 12/21/2012 6:46:45 AM     (No. 9077195)

We´re already over the fiscal cliff. Obamacare and the $Trillion dollar Porkulusmvill sent us over. I don´t understand Washington, but why aren´t the GOP leaders out on all the shows talking spending cuts? Real cuts to useless bureaucracies like the EPA, USDA, etc?

Take a page from the Pelosi play book, and get a 24/7 camera crew with talking points that America can understand.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: M2, 12/21/2012 7:14:58 AM     (No. 9077230)

They made the mess it, let them clean it up.

I want us to "go over the cliff" because once that is done (although I think it´s already done), perhaps the Democrats will realize that we can play hard ball too.

If conservatives don´t hold Boehner´s feet to the fire, he will cave.

And will someone please tell me what Obama´s plan is for cutting spending? Why is the GOP accepting the premise that Obama´s plan to raise taxes on "only the wealthiest Americans" is acceptable without a corresponding plan to seriously cut spending other than in the military where it´s not supposed to be cut?

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Reply 10 - Posted by: Coy860, 12/21/2012 7:20:01 AM     (No. 9077232)

To Mark Levin: "thank me" !
His program was excellent last night.
To Republicans, "it´s the spending, stupid".
To democrats, proof is coming that the Bush tax cuts were NOT just for millionaires..they were for every American. Obama lied about that to become President. McCain was too stupid to call him out on it.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: bpl40, 12/21/2012 7:21:40 AM     (No. 9077238)

The key word here is bipartisan. The ´Rats are not and have never been serious about cutting entitlements. That is the oxygen of their existence, they have nothing else to offer. After the victory of 2012 they are not going to agree. If the RINOs want to enter a ´heads I win, tails you lose´ with the other side its up to them. IMO ..let ´er rip.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: cgood, 12/21/2012 7:28:47 AM     (No. 9077245)

There is a seemingly endless supply of clubs the republicans could beat the dems with, but they seldom choose to pick them up. I wonder how many Americans realize that the federal government has been operating without a budget throughout Obama´s ´reign´? We know it, but the fact that Average Joe doesn´t is the fault of the republicans. They need to mention it nonstop until all Americans are aware that the democrats are to blame for the reckless deficit and resultant ballooning debt. It´s time to stop the madness and the catalyst will be public furor. Time for the republicans to play community organizers.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: bubby, 12/21/2012 7:29:29 AM     (No. 9077247)

#9 is right we have already gone over the cliff. The question is how hard will the landing be? We need real spending cuts not just reductions in the rate of increase but actually spending less (about a trillion dollars less) than last year. Not only cuts but the elimination of Departments like Energy, Education the Doe, EPA, NPR, PBS, Americorps, ethanol subsidies the list things we don´t need is almost endless including the UN. We need a balanced budget next year not in ten years. But none of this will happen Congress will just make a slight reduction in the increase declare that cuts have been made I guess they think we are all fools.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: Bad Dog, 12/21/2012 7:30:46 AM     (No. 9077248)

This all reminds me of parenting very young children.

Going through the grocery store, they were fine - bored, but fine - until we get to that tiny toy aisle. And it begins.

By the time we get to the eye-level candy counter at checkout, there is screeching and tears and tantrums.

You try to reason with them, you tell them you don´t have any extra money (and they see you pay for your groceries with one piece of paper with your name on it), you tell them it´s bad for them. But it goes on. And on. And on.

Then at some point, you just have to be the grownup, and discipline your kid, or you´re forever giving in to them just to shut them up.

And then what have they learned? That you´re easy. That you´ll take the most expedient way out, just to keep a false peace. That THEY are the boss, and you are their servant.

This analogy could go on and on..... we all know it. John Boehner has become the teenage babysitter to the infantile Dems, who perform their constant ritual of never-ending screeching at the candy counter. Our money is exactly at eye level for them - they got a few cheap toys in the tiny little toy aisle, and now they´re demanding everything on the candy counter. Boehner seems to have ´unlearned´ being an adult and has become easy. The childish Dems have him all figured out.

Thank goodness for his buddies, who will be the bad guys in this, but they are far more foresightful, and really are doing what´s best for us.

The difference in the analogy and reality is that the Dems truly will hate Boehner forever. Your children will mature and love you again - the Dems will continue to screech. They don´t learn.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: MOBeef4u, 12/21/2012 7:33:45 AM     (No. 9077254)

It´s funny how the "Bush tax cuts for the rich", a phrase we´ve heard repeatedly for years, if allowed to expire will not only raise the rates for all taxpayers, it will readjust the brackets down to ensnare those who haven´t had to pay taxes.
It´s also funny that while Zero claims to want higher taxes on millionaires and billionaires he won´t accept any increase that doesn´t start at the $250,000 a year level.
Cue Ripley 8: "I´m finding a lot of things funny lately, but I don´t think they are."

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Reply 16 - Posted by: Echohawk, 12/21/2012 7:38:54 AM     (No. 9077263)

The fiscal cliff is Plan B. If the GOP and the dems can´t reach an agreement, a bipartisan agreement is already in place.
I´ve said this before: once the Obamabots feel the pinch (higher taxes) from his disastrous economic policies, he´ll lose support. The media already blaming the cliff on the Republicans, eventually it will dawn on the Obamabots that he is the president and the responsibility is his.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: BarryNo, 12/21/2012 7:46:24 AM     (No. 9077277)

If the taxes were going up anyway, then at least keep your own moral codes.

Go TEA Party!!

And Hurrah for Heritage and other Conservative groups. Now pass a bill keeping the Bush Taxes at their current level for everyone, send it to the Senate and let them sit on it!

And get rid of Boehner. Send him packing! He´ll probably flip to Democrat when you do, which simply puts him in the accurate camp, so far as I´m concerned.

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Reply 18 - Posted by: O.S. Banker, 12/21/2012 7:47:22 AM     (No. 9077280)

In re: #8, I have to disagree. Speaker Boehner deserves the support of his caucus when he earns it. His previous actions regarding the more conservative members of the party were reprehensible. Speaker Boehner´s predisposition to making deals has neutered his effectiveness. Nobody inside the beltway sees any problem that can´t be solved with more money in the Federal Governments coffers, yet they never realize that those funds represent the capital necessary to grow the economy, and create new opportunities for employment.

Sometimes I wonder if Ayn Rand wrote the script for the last 2 years?

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Reply 19 - Posted by: stablemoney, 12/21/2012 7:47:28 AM     (No. 9077281)

The GOP should go on home for the holidays. The House runs spending bills. There is no reason to elect GOP if they will not use the powers they were given.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: OhMy, 12/21/2012 7:48:59 AM     (No. 9077285)

As others have pointed out this was a victory by Mark Levin who is a real leader. Beginning with his Wed show he warned members against voting for this symbolic measure. It will not get past the Senate or be signed by Obama so make it a vote on principle. Levin recommended a bill giving tax cuts on all the lower income levels. That would be symbolic but at least it doesn´t validate Obama´s marxist class warfare rhetoric. When you play on Obama turf you remain in a hopeless position with the PR blame game. The nation has Rat leaders and it needs conservative leaders who will make the case for things we discuss here every day. We have not lost - our case has never been made!!

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Reply 21 - Posted by: Nan, 12/21/2012 7:53:38 AM     (No. 9077297)

The Democrats will NEVER go for any bill that is bi-partisan. It is their way or no way. They could care less about how they are destroying this country. It is all politics with them.

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Reply 22 - Posted by: M2, 12/21/2012 7:54:20 AM     (No. 9077300)

It just occurred to me that the far left wing of the Democrat Party never gets blamed for gridlock in Congress when they drag their Party off to port side , but let the Tea Party or other conservatives try to keep people like Boehner from straying into the middle and all hell breaks loose from the Left AND from establishment conservatives.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: shamus, 12/21/2012 7:57:31 AM     (No. 9077304)

Boehner should resign. He´s failed, and he needs to go.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: Rinktum, 12/21/2012 8:06:07 AM     (No. 9077320)

What a total waste of time these past few weeks were. Why didn´t we have any ads on TV explaining our position? We have no effective messaging strategy and it is hurting us. I would have liked to see more people involved in the negotiations too. If Boehner was smart he would have had Ryan with him in those talks. I frankly, don´t believe Boehner was up to the task. We need leaders who are strong, articulate and will speak the truth without the gauzy filter we are so used to. If we won´t address the problem it will never be solved. Boehner should have said he would not negotiate without spending cuts on the table now. I am disgusted with the Republicans. We need leaders. As Ronald Reagan said, we have serious problems with simple solutions.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: reaganrepublican, 12/21/2012 8:07:31 AM     (No. 9077322)

Let the 52% get what they voted for, we´ll be fine!!! As previous posters have said, those who went mushy should lose their jobs as Senators and Reps, it was for them first, Country second.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: Janjan, 12/21/2012 8:11:09 AM     (No. 9077329)

Obama is bitterly clinging to these irrelevant, symbolic, and totally ineffective tax hikes because he decided somewhere in the middle of his first term that the other two branches of government should be neutralized so that he can reign unimpeded by the American people. I don´t find his refusal to compromise to be so much partisan as just chilling. He needs to be taught a lesson.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: tocsin, 12/21/2012 8:13:32 AM     (No. 9077335)

´´lets cut a penny from every dollar in every department´s budget´´

WHY wasn´t every Pubbie repeating this ad infinitum?
So simple even a (D)uh Mass ´´low information´´ voter could get it.

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Reply 28 - Posted by: lil dotty, 12/21/2012 8:34:17 AM     (No. 9077369)

Thank you Conservative and T Party house members. THIS is the reason you were sent to DC. Nice to see you did the job you were employed to do.

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Reply 29 - Posted by: 66Strat, 12/21/2012 8:41:24 AM     (No. 9077381)

Boehner is a typical politician, not a leader. When the GOP gets blamed for everything bad over the next 4 years, we should at least be taking hits because we are doing the right thing for the country - not because we didn´t cave enough. How is caving to Marxists ever the right thing? Conservative ideas were the answer before the fiscal cliff, and they will remain the answer as we go over, and beyond. Boehner has no ´true north´ - he´s just a politician, nothing more.

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Reply 30 - Posted by: udanja99, 12/21/2012 8:54:46 AM     (No. 9077403)

What difference does it make to this lefty journalist? Reid had already stated that he wasn´t going to allow a vote on any bill coming from the House.

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Reply 31 - Posted by: Illinois Resident, 12/21/2012 8:56:18 AM     (No. 9077407)

I for one am tired of Boehner and his political games. I do not think he and his small bunch of rino cronies are leaders. They have stood for nothing and gotten steamrolled by the democrats. barack Hypocrite obama is not a leader, he is king of the playground; you can tell by the way he acts. It is time for a party with leaders to stand up for the country and stop playing political games. Indict, impeach, bring criminal charges, repeal regulations, enforce the laws we have. Clean the house and cut through the crap.

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Reply 32 - Posted by: OperaBuff, 12/21/2012 8:57:15 AM     (No. 9077409)

Going over the cliff will change the direction of the country. What´s wrong with that?

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Reply 33 - Posted by: jackburton, 12/21/2012 8:58:55 AM     (No. 9077411)

So... the Mayans were right!

This was never going to be resolved anyway. First of all, higher taxes? Obama wanted that.

Secondly, Blame the Republicans? That, too.

Thirdly, NO compromise would work without him whipping his party into line and that was work and Obama does NOT work; doesn´t know the meaning of the word.

Boehner should have been principled from the start. He should have offered not just a good solution but an agressively good one to give himself room to bargain. He was an idiot who damaged his credibility.

Let´s all summon up some alligator tears.

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Reply 34 - Posted by: Luckyx3, 12/21/2012 9:02:22 AM     (No. 9077418)

This is what you get when the stupid vote.

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Reply 35 - Posted by: sadc, 12/21/2012 9:13:55 AM     (No. 9077440)

Yes, this is what happens when you cater to the stupid vote. And, they have one question only, "what comes after Obama phones? You said there was more. What? That´s all we care about". If just one person would ask an Obama phone person if the govt has to take money from someone who works to give it to you, is that OK? We know their answer is yes.

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Reply 36 - Posted by: Tomas, 12/21/2012 9:17:03 AM     (No. 9077447)

Dear Tea Party:

Sometimes, politics is poker.

Sincerely,

Everyone Who Knows More Than You

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Reply 37 - Posted by: chicodon, 12/21/2012 9:23:07 AM     (No. 9077459)

This will definitely expose our divide. After we go over the cliff see which side comes unglued. The left will demand that Socialism be adopted and spending begin immediately. The right will tighten their belts.

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Reply 38 - Posted by: ccyr, 12/21/2012 9:42:53 AM     (No. 9077503)

The DUMB party really blew this one. Boehner had Obama in a trap to prove that he was a liar about only wanting to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. So, we were going to pass a tax on millionaires and billionaires and trap with NO HOPE of the bill passing the Senate or being signed by the president. But the TEA PARTY let Obama out of the trap. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. Jenny Beth, you guys missed this one. I still love you, but you blew it on this one.

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Reply 39 - Posted by: gwmcclintok, 12/21/2012 9:45:15 AM     (No. 9077512)

Previous poster, i disagree. Supporting Boehner is supporting democrats and Obama. Opposing Boehner is the right thing to do. And vote him out of the Speakership next month.

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Reply 40 - Posted by: kanphil, 12/21/2012 9:46:44 AM     (No. 9077518)

So, get a fresh start. This time, LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE, and go after spending. Forget about higher taxes. Maybe, just maybe, if you listen to your bosses, respect for Congress will go up.

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Reply 41 - Posted by: ccyr, 12/21/2012 9:46:45 AM     (No. 9077519)

#37. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

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Reply 42 - Posted by: federale, 12/21/2012 9:48:13 AM     (No. 9077523)

America is already over the cliff. Ask Santa for a block and tackle for Christmas.

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Reply 43 - Posted by: Eheu Fugaces, 12/21/2012 9:50:45 AM     (No. 9077528)

#17 - If only! Don´t count on it. Never underestimate the Obamabots´ capacity for childish wishful thinking and for belief that their guy is perfect in all ways. And this delusion is not limited to Obamabots. How else, in the face of all that has happened these past four years, did Obama get 52% of the popular vote, and with epic cheating in certain key states, a total of 53% of the vote? As far as I´m concerned, the whole shooting match of them can go over the cliff and land on the rocks with a juicy splat. They are incorrigible.



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Reply 44 - Posted by: logiclogger, 12/21/2012 9:59:09 AM     (No. 9077554)

#40 expressed my opinion. When the pain comes it will be reported that it was because the Republican House could not present a bill to the Senate to vote on. We could have put the ball in the Dems hands.

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Reply 45 - Posted by: sagman, 12/21/2012 10:17:21 AM     (No. 9077596)

The Speaker did what he could to throw the ball back into the Dems´ court. He had Ryan´s support, which counts a lot with me.

The naysayers stood on principle. I can understand that, but in so doing, they cut their leader off at the knees. This humiliation of Boehner may feel good to some, but it grievously hurts the caucus, imo. Not good.

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Reply 46 - Posted by: stryker714, 12/21/2012 10:25:44 AM     (No. 9077618)

#31 cuts to the chase. The dems are the party of "Dr No" and have/had no intention of passing anything the House presents.

This whole debacle could have been avoided if the DC politicians had done their job when the debt ceiling issue came up before in 2011. Pubs had Obama over a barrel, gave him what he wanted anyway. They then deferred the dirty details until after the election, after "the gang of twelve"/summer 2011 failed. Those fools in DC are definitely NOT worth what they are being paid.

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Reply 47 - Posted by: owl, 12/21/2012 10:37:15 AM     (No. 9077649)

Now what is you kick Boehner to the all- hours- parties in DC and hire someone with cajones´ , say like Louis Gomert . Someone who´d tell that little rodent wannabe dictator to go play on the freeway . No #2 , taxes DO NOT go up if the House does that very thing . This is not a dictatorship , yet .

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Reply 48 - Posted by: TheMotherCO, 12/21/2012 10:37:35 AM     (No. 9077651)

Cantor and John are on CSpan and it is really sad that so many mouth off when they know nothing. Pubbies were all set with a good proposal - reid went home and has not passed any bills from the House. As for levin - peamit gallery - easy for him. I turned him off.

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Reply 49 - Posted by: Butch59, 12/21/2012 10:38:01 AM     (No. 9077653)

Since the Constitution clearly states that all spending bills must originate in the House, the Republican house should put together a bill that overhauls the entire federal spending, including the "entitlement" programs like Medicare and Social Security. All of them. And include the elimination of "base line budgeting". That should easily pass the House. Send it to the Senate and then the RNC should run a continuous campaign in support of it and state the reasons why. Secondly, if the House really wants to put pressure on Obozo and the Dims, don´t pass ANY spending bill with the exception of the Defense bill, without additional spending amendments. That cuts off the money flow for the dims. Let them all scream and cry until THEY come up with some idea of cutting actual spending. And I mean reduce the amount of dollars spent each year.

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Reply 50 - Posted by: Mr. Know-It-All, 12/21/2012 10:39:09 AM     (No. 9077658)

This is a no win for the pubbies. oblamer clearly wants to go "over the cliff" (btw, I´m tired of that description). In this way he will have a ready excuse for the coming recession and will blame the pubbies for not caving. And the propaganda wing of the socialist party (AKA, the driveby "news" oragnizations) will obediantly report that line ad infanitum.

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Reply 51 - Posted by: Felixcat, 12/21/2012 10:39:21 AM     (No. 9077659)

The problem has and continues to be spending. Dr. Sowell and others have pointed out that even if you confiscate the wealth of all those millionaires and billionaires (to include friends of the Obamas like Jay-Z and Beyonce)it will not make a dent.

And why isn´t Sen McConnell pointing out that Sen Reid refuses to pass any bill from the House?

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Reply 52 - Posted by: planetgeo, 12/21/2012 10:53:41 AM     (No. 9077701)

Plan B, as in Boehner, or Bozo. Same thing, except that Bozo doesn´t wear as much ManTan.

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Reply 53 - Posted by: msjena, 12/21/2012 10:58:05 AM     (No. 9077712)

After thinking about this a little bit more, I think the Republicans were wrong to reject this proposal. They should have made it a as a final offer and gone home. If the Democrats rejected it, the tax increases would be their fault. Now what is going to happen is that after the taxes go up, the Democrats will float a plan lowering taxes for everyone but the "rich" and add a lot of spending and other junk. If the Republicans vote against it, it will be "their fault." Boehner should give Plan B another try--maybe bring some Democrat in conservative districts in. Has Congress adjourned yet?

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Reply 54 - Posted by: nevernaught, 12/21/2012 11:04:02 AM     (No. 9077729)

Hey Slick... how did punishing Tea Party members by removing them from committees work out for you. Might just get yourself removed after the new Congress is sworn in.

A leadership position requires just that, not pandering to the other party on proposed laws that harm the Constitution and the American people. The House is the one organization that best reflects how the electorate feels about what is going on in this country. They gave the you a majority. Start sending legislation forward that cuts taxes and trims unnecessary government. Stop pandering to GOP incompetents who lost the last Presidential election.

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Reply 55 - Posted by: JimJr, 12/21/2012 11:04:02 AM     (No. 9077728)

Earlier this week, Newt Gingrich was on Hannity´s radio show. he said that if Obama wanted the allow the Bush tax rates to expire, that is go back the rates of the Clinton Administration, the Republicans should not stand in the way, then send the 1995-1996 ("Clinton Surplus") budget to the Senate.

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Reply 56 - Posted by: MDMuskrat, 12/21/2012 11:27:36 AM     (No. 9077811)

There´s a whole lot of desperate optimism here, methinks.

Jonathan Karl has established the narrative here: "Tea Party groups thwarted Boehner and sent us all over the visual cliff."

He craftily sets us up with his last sentence, "It will be interesting to see if the markets react." Have you looked at the markets this morning? Not unexpectedly, the Asian, European and American markets have all plunged (DOW off 130 points right now).

So here´s the story line. Conservative Republicans, lashed by those evil Tea Partiers, drove the country off the fiscal cliff. The media and WH will sell it; the public will buy it.

Only you and I know that this group was so inept, so disorganized, and so clueless that they couldn´t even put a real president in the White House in "The Most Important Election in This Country´s History."

We lost the election, guys. We lost the PR battle with Obama on the visual cliff. And now we have lost the last chance to prevent our going over into the abyss...and we WILL be blamed for it. Now, doesn´t that make us LOSERS?

Merry Christmas

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Reply 57 - Posted by: smcchk, 12/21/2012 11:28:19 AM     (No. 9077812)

I agree with #50. The GOP had to pass something to force the Democrats´ hand. Now, all blame will be laid at the GOP feet. Stupid! Some GOP reps gave Obama the best Christmas gift ever.

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Reply 58 - Posted by: yuban, 12/21/2012 11:37:11 AM     (No. 9077841)

This is another great article that let´s us know who the Socialist-lite folk are, here on Lucianne. Whenever Conservatives win, the Socialist-lite crowd here blames us for all the ills the GOP has. LOL. Too funny.

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Reply 59 - Posted by: OhMy, 12/21/2012 11:41:23 AM     (No. 9077852)

Remember that this whole fiscal cliff debacle was set up by the last debt limit debacle where the cry baby gave Obama what he wanted and set up the terms for this losing game. The Rats always put a sunset date on the Bush tax cuts and send the pubbies on endless tangents unravelling their doublespeak on tax rates. Howard Dean even said the terms of the fiscal cliff were not so bad, it has most of what the Rats want anyway, tax increases on everybody and cuts to the military. Why would Obama give something to the cry baby now when Boehner led off the negotiations by caving on taxes for the rich? This failure was set up by the last failure and new leadership is needed to take on Obama. This is a step in the right direction.

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Reply 60 - Posted by: LadyHen, 12/21/2012 11:42:25 AM     (No. 9077857)

No joke #19. I´m reading Atlas Shrugged for the first time now and Rand was prophetic in her brutal and honest assessment of this country´s future.



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Reply 61 - Posted by: JAN, 12/21/2012 11:45:19 AM     (No. 9077865)

Love all the millionaire loudmouths standing on their soapboxes shrieking into the wind.

We are the one who will get the spit in our faces when the taxes go up and we can barely make ends meet.

So nice when money is no object for the purists. The rest of us can eat catfood??

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Reply 62 - Posted by: tusker, 12/21/2012 11:56:14 AM     (No. 9077891)

The net is Bow-Boy´s demokratic communmist socialist goons hell-bent on destroying the U.S. economy, and doing one fine job of it, own this disaster, both current fiscal and future disaster. It is exactly what these communists want: the total destruction of the U.S. middle class, the fiscal destruction of the U.S. The barbarians are at the gate and their names are: Bow-Boy, the demokratic communmist socialist goons lead by Pee-losy and Rapine Reid and all so-called Republicans whining about "reaching across the aisle".

Down with Bow-Boy and the DCS.

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Reply 63 - Posted by: strike3, 12/21/2012 11:57:12 AM     (No. 9077892)

Taxing the "rich" was never the solution. There just isn´t enough money there so everybody was doomed to higher taxes from the day that obama wasted his first stimulus payments. His faux concern for the middle class is just a political game until it becomes common knowledge that he always meant to tax everybody to death. Cutting the ridiculous spending is the ONLY way back to the top of the cliff. I don´t want Boehner to negotiate, I want him to demand NO tax increase and large spending cuts.

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Reply 64 - Posted by: O.S. Banker, 12/21/2012 12:24:01 PM     (No. 9077964)

I am probably one of those folks who doesnt know as much as others...And I do understand that when playing a bluff in a game of 5-card draw, you will occasionally lose. However;

To hold Obama accountable for his lies would require the assistance of a fair and impartial press. We no longer have that facility.

To pass a budget that would cut 1% across the board for all Federal departments, agencies and enterprises would have required a level of testicular fortitude that has not been seen in Congress since the days of Davey Crockett.

Mr. Boehner elected to play ´go along to get along´. If he could have talked Nasty Pelousy into supporting his plan, this group of 13 brave souls would not have stood a snowballs chance in Hades.

Some of you will wail that we have blown our chance to trap Obama in a box, and with regards to the people who read L-Dot, you are absolutely right. But it just doesn´t matter to the true believers in socialism, to those successfull individuals who want to be thought of as fair and intellectual, and to that vast hoard of non-engaged citizen who swallows the offical line of the mass media with no regard to its palatability with regards to facts or logic.

When you figure out that the game is rigged you have a choice, play until you lose, or pick-up your marbles and go home.

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Reply 65 - Posted by: steveracer, 12/21/2012 12:29:42 PM     (No. 9077981)

Why can Dims play it rough but the Stupes aren´t allowed to? Find a pair, will you Republicans, please.

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Reply 66 - Posted by: peterfleming, 12/21/2012 12:36:14 PM     (No. 9077999)

There´s only one deal: not a single, solitary increase in taxes (or "revenue" as the slickers soft pedal it). Not a dime more
The only way is to start cutting now, not deferred cuts, but current cuts. Just firing
a million non essential, desk bound bureau crats, just as a good faith jesture, just firing these money wasters, would be a dramatic start. Move up elegibility dates
on Social security & medicare for starters.
Go over military spending like Ron Paul has been suggesting for years. So much military warring secrets waste. Just start cleaning up spending and talk only about that. But, of course, it can´t happen because each Congressdroid is on the hook for many forms of dishonesty and exposure, and each Congressdroid has to follow the gang leaders advice or risk exposure, death or injuries to their family mafia style. The criminality, risk of exposure to all of Congress and millions of government taxtakers means it woon´ be cleared up.
The New Press could show how much money each
person costs us, each time they are on the air, their income, their double dipping retirement status, their net worth, their criminal background, each time!. It would be a start, but the press is the protector of all this crime so they won´t do it.

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Reply 67 - Posted by: dman, 12/21/2012 1:43:02 PM     (No. 9078109)

I supported a vote for Plan B as a "least bad" tactical move. The Tea Party House caucus concluded otherwise. Strategically I´m with them all the way, but tactically this was a close call. Now that this decision is made, we must hang tough and follow through - especially as we approach the debt ceiling and CRs (again). The Wall Streeters will howl and sell off in the short run, but most of us are out of the market anyway. They will come back in line once measures to control spending are actually in place. The 2014 elections are 23 months away - plenty of time for this to play out.

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Reply 68 - Posted by: trapper, 12/21/2012 2:21:04 PM     (No. 9078164)

Good. Let them all expire, including the EITC and the doubled child credit (thanks for nothing, W).

I´m willing to pay a little more just to shut off the money spigot to that bum down the street who collects "refunds" of taxes he never paid in the first place. He´s been living off my dime for almost a decade. Now it will end, and it will be nice to have him and his whole worthless family off my back.

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Reply 69 - Posted by: Fledrmaus, 12/21/2012 2:23:43 PM     (No. 9078169)

All this moaning over lost opportunities is delusional. "This would have PROVED that Obama is a liar" "EVeryone would finally see that the Democrats are crooked" etc. Forget it. All these clever little traps always fail. Nobody sees anything, because they´re never looking in the right direction. The media are flashing big bright lights non-stop so the public is staring at the shiny little goodies being dangled in front of their greedy eyes. I´m sick of vainly trying to teach the people truths that they should know instinctively. No more trying to make them "see" anything; now I want them to FEEL it - feel the skin being torn off their fat, selfish backsides. Feel the money being ripped out of their grasping hands. Feel the food being grabbed out of their useless mouths. The people who voted for Obama are too corrupted and brainless to be reached by reason and arguments. They´re animals, and they should experience life the way animals do.

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Reply 70 - Posted by: Billyc, 12/21/2012 2:24:33 PM     (No. 9078172)

# Nr 8 a lot of Republicans want to see Boehner step down. He is so weak and to propse a bill ( Pelosi´s Bill)to tax certain entrepeneurs millionaires . These are the people that will lay off workers if they are taxed.Two things Boehner should have said when the tax cheat Geithner showed Obamas plan . That it was ludicrous and the criterion spend another round of Keynesian Economics. (stimulli which NEVER WORKED). Boethner should have told Obama outright that the majority keep the Bush tax cuts.If Obama rejects this cut then he will be ostracized by Republicans and Democrats alike. Taxes have no party affiliation.Republicans hold the House and with it hold the purse strings holding the National debt ceiling to a fixed level.Personally I think the Speaker should step down and appoint a more forceful replacement. Rep Ryan would be a good choice . He is a financial expert and able to take on and put this incompetant in the WH down to size.

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Reply 71 - Posted by: Grambo, 12/21/2012 2:54:03 PM     (No. 9078212)

The government is drunk on moneyand they only treatment is cold turkey. There is no more mnoney. they want more tax revenue. the answer is no. Get over it.

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Reply 72 - Posted by: lencu255, 12/21/2012 3:03:00 PM     (No. 9078225)

This is something I want to share with my conservative compatriots:
I received a letter from Reince Priebus. You know, Chairman of RNC. He is asking me to give him $55, $110 or $165.
Now, I have a question: for what???
Assuming that there was no massive fraud in 2012 elections, what did repubics do that they deserve my money (and all other kinds of support)??? Btw, if there was a massive fraud, what did they do in THAT case?
So, let’s assume there was no fraud. What are they going to do with my money? Pay their own salaries, what else? So far I don’t see successes in their activity. Do they criticize boehner, cantor (lower case is intentional), RINO senators? No. It seems they supported Romney when he ate republican presidential contenders alive, but didn’t ask obozo about Benghazi. Examples are abound! You know all this.



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Reply 73 - Posted by: lencu255, 12/21/2012 3:04:07 PM     (No. 9078229)

Continue my #74
The other aspect is – “majority” of Americans voted for obozo (and many other lefties). What has to be done to sway public to the conservative principles? Let’s be clear, FOX news, talk radio and conservative websites are for our consumption – staunch conservatives (although, personally, I don’t listen to rush and hannity after elections – I am tired of them yapping the same tune!). But flyover guys don’t hear and read it. And here comes my question and answer – why is it that conservatives (and in this case, repubics) don’t understand that we need real propaganda machine. Give it to leftist radicals, formerly fascists and commies, now our homegrown progressives, they know their playbook and they seized mainstream media. (also, the money, they own banking and Wall Street, don’t you agree?)
What did our repubics? Nothing. And how do you explain to the most Americans what the intentions of the dems are? Only with the help of the mainstream conservative media. So, my answer is – the first task of RNC is to build conservative mainstream media from ground up. Buy local newspapers and TV stations. I am absolutely positive that 50% (maybe more) of media people will be happy to leave rotten leftist rags and TV and work for commonsensical media.
And for that I will be willing to pay, but reince pribus, I am not giving YOU my money!


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Reply 74 - Posted by: judy, 12/21/2012 3:26:55 PM     (No. 9078266)

My guess is 60% of the people agree with the tea party people who stopped these tax hikes. People are sick of the DC waste & abuse of the taxpayers $$$$. Boehner is a very weak leader who needs to be replaced. The congressman from Ohio, Laquette, blamed the tea party, he should be blaming the WH.

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Reply 75 - Posted by: LC Chihuahua, 12/21/2012 3:38:29 PM     (No. 9078286)

The odds of going over the fiscal cliff just went up. All of the Dems and half of the Republicans are ok with that otherwise they would never have agreed to the deal last summer. Who knows what will happen in the end. Looks like alot of theatre going on in Washington.

The Dems are marching lockstep. The Republicans are going in two different directions (moderate vs conservative). Its easy for Obama, the Dems, and the media to exploit the differences in the Republican party.

The people that are least popular in Washington are fiscal conservative. They will cut the Washington gravy train, Can´t have that happen /s/.



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Reply 76 - Posted by: judy, 12/21/2012 3:58:11 PM     (No. 9078321)

DeMint & Colburn tried ...look where it got them....let´s face it rinos are dems.

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Reply 77 - Posted by: lencu255, 12/21/2012 4:01:13 PM     (No. 9078327)

This is the only place I can vent - I would gladly write letter to the editor of the conservative "mainstream" newspaper, but there is not one in existence.
That´s why I am harping about necessity of conservative mainstream media. What may I expect from hannity? One williams? ha-ha-ha!
I want Krauhammers and Kristols being criticized in real conservative media.
And if we don´t get one we are doomed. Lenin and hitler knew it, castro and chavez know that - why our conservatives don´t?
Read lenin and "Mein Kampf", learn!


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Reply 78 - Posted by: King of all trolls, 12/21/2012 4:05:25 PM     (No. 9078338)

This de facto rule by radio host will destroy the GOP and move the country further left. What we have here is an amateurish rabble rouser splinting the party and undermining negotiating leverage, which will benefit Barry and the Dems who want cover to let all of the bush tax cuts expire.. Then Barry rides in as savior of broken Washington and offers a "historic" tax cut for the middle class. Levin and his virginal stooges need to be ousted. They are helping to make Barry the hero.

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Reply 79 - Posted by: O.S. Banker, 12/21/2012 5:18:14 PM     (No. 9078426)

There is no leverage when your oppositions response is to shut up and do it my way. The only possible action available to the republicans was to draft a budget with real spending cuts approve it and forward to the Senate for their inaction. That action exceeded the capacity of Mr. Boehner. The only positive outcome to ´Plan B´ would have been a blue-print for a general house cleaning in 2014. However, I would not want to give Mr. Obama control of both houses of Congress.

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Reply 80 - Posted by: butch, 12/21/2012 5:21:00 PM     (No. 9078432)

Those congressmen stood on principle. Raising taxes for anyone during a weak economic recovery is sheer folly. Standing firm on principles may yield insults in the short term, but will produce solid results in the long run. Ronald Reagan knew that, and that´s why he made unpopular choices when he felt they were necessary. And that´s why he´s revered today.

Ask yourself this: Has history been kinder to Ronald Reagan or to George H. W. Bush? The latter is a good and decent man, but he should have read his own lips: No New Taxes. Caving on that pledge - and abandoning his principles - cost him the 1992 election and made the Clinton era a hideous reality.

Does anyone seriously believe that the MSM will ever stop blaming the Republicans for every single bad thing that ever happens in the world? The notion that we conservatives are going to get blamed because of last night´s vote is a fallacy; we were always going to be blamed by the MSM anyway. We stand on our principles, or we lose.

President Obama will be inaugurated on January 20. By then, most working Americans will have received their first (much smaller) paychecks of 2013. We didn´t build that; Obama built that. Buyer´s remorse anyone?

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Reply 81 - Posted by: JAN, 12/21/2012 6:36:22 PM     (No. 9078504)

These power mongers ruined our holidays.

Left us with lots of stress about the future.

About our medical care as we are on Medicare.

Thanks for nothing. At least the millionaires and billionaires have someone on their side. The Heritage Foundation!

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Reply 82 - Posted by: woofwoofwoof, 12/21/2012 7:21:51 PM     (No. 9078562)

I´ve known for weeks that we were going over the cliff, and I´m not entirely upset about it.

It´s not even for tax reasons that Boehner´s bill was rejected, it´s because it is INSANE to sign ANY tax bill without spending cuts AT THE SAME TIME, and I mean real cuts TODAY, not slowing growth of programs ten years out that is totally hypothetical and hypocritical.

Obama has been unprecedentedly insulting and dishonest every bit of the way on this, and Harry Reid even worse, and Pelosi doing her level best to keep up with their idiocies. Yes that is sufficient basis for the Republicans to tell them to kiss off and freeze the government, come what may.

And of course the next step is for Obama to seize emergency powers and do whatever he wants by fiat. No later than Easter.

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Reply 83 - Posted by: Deusvolt, 12/21/2012 8:36:56 PM     (No. 9078635)

As poster # 4 remarked: "It will hurt but it will hurt everyone. And it will signal that the free ride is not so free anymore."

I see somewhat of a "silver lining" to this opinion. During his first term as governor of California, Ronald Reagan stated: "Taxes should hurt." In my opinion, painful tax bills constituted one of the incentives that led to his first-term gubernatorial victory. Nothing like a painful tax bill to capture the attention of the voters. Admittedly, RRs comment was voiced in opposition to a plan to introduce payroll withholding; but the underlying principle was the same: bit-by-bit taxation does not hurt as much as a one-time big tax bill.



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Reply 84 - Posted by: dodge boy, 12/21/2012 9:00:42 PM     (No. 9078655)

Boehner did his best but his past behavior toward the tp contingent


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Reply 85 - Posted by: dodge boy, 12/21/2012 9:23:24 PM     (No. 9078677)

Boehner did his best but his past behavior toward the tp contingent cost him and cost us.

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Reply 86 - Posted by: rocket scientist, 12/21/2012 9:57:06 PM     (No. 9078706)

Dump Boehner now. I am tired of his Kabuki Theater and his willingness to throw away Conservative principles so he can enable Obama to continue his reckless spending spree. We need a real Conservative as Speaker of the House, not one of Obama´s golfing buddies. Boehner is Justice Roberts Lite. Like a snake in the grass.

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New York Times, by Bill Pennington    Original Article
Posted By: Pluperfect- 4/19/2014 10:48:33 AM     Post Reply
GREENSBORO, Ga. — Golf holes the size of pizzas. Soccer balls on the back nine. A mulligan on every hole. These are some of the measures — some would say gimmicks — that golf courses across the country have experimented with to stop people from quitting the game. Golf has always reveled in its standards and rich tradition. But increasingly a victim of its own image and hidebound ways, golf has lost five million players in the last decade, according to the National Golf Foundation, with 20 percent of the existing 25 million golfers apt to quit in the next few years. People under 35 have especially spurned the game, saying it takes too

Barack Obama and the politics of lies
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Washington Examiner [DC], by Editorial    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 4/20/2014 5:45:25 AM     Post Reply
That was quite a victory dance President Obama did Thursday while claiming Obamacare is “working” because eight million people have now supposedly signed up for the health care program. He even indulged in some less-than-subtle mockery of Republicans - and by extension the majority of Americans who have disapproved of Obamacare since before it became law. "The repeal debate is and should be over,” Obama said, taking a dig at Republicans who are “going through, you know, the stages of grief … anger and denial and all that stuff …” But a president who is viewed by most Americans as less

Obama: ´For me, Easter is a story of hope,
a belief in a better day to come´

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Investor´s Business Daily, by Andrew Malcolm    Original Article
Posted By: SurferLad- 4/19/2014 9:16:36 AM     Post Reply
Hi, everybody. For millions of Americans, this time of year holds great meaning. Earlier this week, we hosted a Passover Seder at the White House, and joined Jewish families around the world in their re-tellings of the story of the Exodus and the victory of faith over oppression. And this Sunday, Michelle, Malia, Sasha, and I will join our fellow Christians around the world in celebrating the Resurrection of Christ, the salvation he offered the world, and the hope that comes with the Easter season. These holy days have their roots in miracles that took place long ago. And yet, they still inspire us, guide us, and strengthen us today. They remind us of our

Harry Reid calls dissident Nevada ranchers
´domestic terrorists´ following show of
force against the federal government

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Daily Mail [UK], by David Martosko    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 4/19/2014 9:29:17 AM     Post Reply
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Thursday that a family of dissident ranchers and their supporters in his home state of Nevada are ´domestic terrorists,´ citing this week´s standoff with the federal government´s Bureau of Land Management. Cliven Bundy has refused to pay grazing fees for land where his hundreds of cattle roam every day. The land is owned by the federal government, which says he owes more than $1 million. Bundy, however, insists that since his family has been using the land since the 1870s, Uncle Sam can´t collect the grazing fees. A tense standoff developed this week after


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