For decades, it has been obvious that there are irreconcilable differences between Americans who want to control the lives of others and those who wish to be left alone. Which is the more peaceful solution: Americans using the brute force of government to beat liberty-minded people into submission or simply parting company? In a marriage, where vows are ignored and broken, divorce is the most peaceful solution. Similarly, our constitutional and human rights have been increasingly violated by a government instituted to protect them. Americans who support constitutional abrogation have no intention of mending their ways. Since Barack Obama´s re-election,
We have an illegitimate political system and an illegitimate government. For some time I have recognized that the struggle for freedom against totalitarian socialism will not be resolved by politics. It´s time to split the country, but it won´t happen soon enough. In the meantime, I do what I can to separate myself from the government, from the totalitarians, I avoid paying taxes as much as I can, I don;t do business with liberals, and I wait for some leadership and organization.
I think there may be ways to do a virtual secession without going through the formalities and deaths that would occur when Zero turned the military´s might against the people. I´m thinking of ways to cut off the money. You should be too.
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature´s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. ... But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." (Emphasis mine.)
Back to basics. Dr. Williams has it absolutely correct. The first Civil War did not settle the issue - it suppressed it.
The U.S.A. is not the "roach motel". States have the right to leave the union. Stiff penalties upon re-entry are appropriate, however.
I would propose a confederation of red and blue states sharing only the cost of the military. The red states would get the conservative supreme court, lower taxes, fewer regulations, a safety net for the handicapped, no welfare, nothing for illegals and the boy scouts. The aclu would be banned. The blue states would get all the rest, higher taxes, welfare, more regulations, all the illegals etc. Every four years each state could vote to become a blue or red state. I just wonder how long it would take to change the whole country red?
The subjugated States here are not a cohesive geographic unit but consist of dispersed ´givers´ to the parasites, spread all across the land. They should simply stop paying Federal taxes, in a peaceful organized movement of civil disobedience. Gandhi couldn´t be put in jail or tortured because there were 330 million supporting him, ready to go to behind bars.
Mr. Walter has caused me to rethink The War of Northern Agression. Exactly how was breaking from King George different from breaking with King Lincoln or King Barack?
If there was to be a split, the difference between the two would be as stark as NORKs and South Koreans. It would be absolutely neccessary for Constitutional States to be ajoined. Otherwise, having to travel through statist territories to reach another friendly state would be like trekking through a jungle of starving cannibals.
The unions have seized our government and vote themselves high salaries and early pensions. The electorate votes themselves income redistributed from the responsible. The elections are fraudulent. There is nothing in this arrangement for responsible and productive people. It is time to withdraw.
Secession is the only peaceful option. If we continue down the current path there will eventually be 1861 Part 2. For those of you who attended government propaganda centers known as "Public Education", 1861 was the year the so-called American Civil War started.
Civil War II will not be as pretty as the first one. It may be more necessary, it may be more righteous, but it will not be as pretty unless the military has had enough and decides to stick with the Constitution and ditch Zippy. If the military splinters, I hate to think of the results.
The division was already voted in on November 6. -- and it´s an easy one. Take a look at the electoral rsults map. Blue America, or Greater Moonbattia -- as I prefer to think of it, runs up the Pacific Coast, through Washington State, then across the Northern Tier to the Great Lakes Region and thence across to Ohio and the Mid-Atlantic States and down to Maryland.
Some states should be split: For example, eastern California (red) v. Coastal California (Blue), similarly Washington and Oregon. Ohio should be split into Northern and Southern Ohio, Northern Ohio (Blue) -- including Cleveland (ultra blue), no great loss, while Southern Ohio (red) can join the free states. Similarly, Pennsylvania, with Eastern PA (including Philadelphia) obviously being a "keystone" of Moonbattia SSR. I don´t know what you do about South Florida a/k/a Brooklyn with Palm Trees, except I have been wanting to build a wall around it since it has begun spreading up to my neck of the woods.
As for the capital-- how about a new one in the middle of the country, as in Omaha or Wichita or Tulsa?
The ´irreconcilability´ comes from democrat irrationality and hate. They hate the rich so they want to raise taxes. Read the piece today on Drudge--Britain did that and lost billions in tax revenue. However, Obama thinks it´s fair to cut off his nose to spite his face. How can you ´reconcile´ or ´compromise´ with people who are, fundamentally, ideologically-driven idiots?
W O W... This article gave me goose bumps. This is the most powerful, succinctly stated summary of all that I believe about where we are today and what was so evil about Lincoln and what the North did to the South in the civil war. Sure, the South was in the wrong as well (never should have fired upon Sumpter, for one thing), but the South should have been allowed to govern itself as its people wanted and thus let the North "prove" that their approach was better. Lincoln was he second worst president this country has ever had. He followed Marx´s communist manifesto point #4:
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
What I wouldn´t give to see two separate countries, Red America and Blue America. Within 10 years, the contrast between the two would be greater than the current contrast between South Korea and North Korea (and for the same reasons).
I responded above before I read the other posts...
I have been lurking on this site since 2002 and posting since 2004 and this is probably my favorite thread I have ever seen here. Fantastic article, super-high quality comments from all ldotters. I just wish we had the gumption to take action (and maybe we do, but I am not yet seeing it).
I would say that #5´s solution is closest to a practical solution which we could actually realize. I seem to recall Romney discussing the idea of pushing the responsibility for all social programs down to the states to avoid the national redistribution problem. When I heard Romney talk about those ideas, I really thought we had some real hope.
I really like the idea of the federal government´s funding being paid by the states, and not the people of the states. This allows each state to decide how to raise revenue, and each state could form its own approach. May the best state win.
What do you propose to do with the blue inhabitants of red states? Imprison them? Exile them? Kill them? 41.34% of Texans voted for Obama. They may not leave willingly. Should they be stripped of their citizenship and deported to New York or California?
And what about the red states that have many more takers than makers: South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, and Kentucky? They get more federal money than they pay in taxes. Will the more affluent red states support them?
The Red states produce - food and energy . And if the big , worn-out city ( think Detroit , Pittsburgh, Cleveland ) panhandlers don´t stop , and leave us alone , sorry , no more handouts . We´re sick and tired of puling your cart when all you can do is shout " faster " .
IF it could be accomplished (secession) it would necessarily need to have an in place plan (Constitution) ready for the states to accept. The current Constitution would be used with some modifications (term limits being on. And others that space does not permit me to list). It would be a good start.
As for Obozo turning loose the military on red state America like Lincoln did, I´m not too sure that would work in today´s world. Simply because, if I´m not mistaken, the majority of service members come from red states. Those that live in the blue states, large population centers, and receiving their "entitlement" don´t usually join the military. It´s too hard and has too much discipline for them to handle. So I really don´t think that our good and brave soldiers, sailors, and airmen are going to turn on American. Especially at the whim of Obozo. Most of them don´t like him anyway.
I jumped too 26 . But to add to #20 , Northern Ca. has wanted to secede from Moonbattia for some time . Conservative farmers who have had to fight the likes of Boxer and watch their crops die because of a fish . Fresh vegs. we´d have on our side . I can hear SF howl ...
#27, the answer is very simple if you go to the core problem. People who receive welfare in various forms are either disabled (for real), too lazy to work, unemployeed due to bad Obama policies, or on the dole due to lax laws passed by Liberals.
Answer: For the truly disabled, we help them, for the unemployeed we help them get jobs but if they are really slackers we cut them off, for the lazy and on the dole we cut them off as well, AND we make it so those that don´t work cannot vote. Soon the lazy and slackers will either get jobs or leave for Blue states for their continuing freebees. Problem solved!
#27 blue inhabitants of red states would be welcome to stay and would benefit from the freedoms and opportunity the rest of us would enjoy. Now, if they were in need of heavy mooching, it would behoove them to relocate to the blue states since there would be no such thing as "government support" in red states (one would hope). And blue state citizens would be welcome to relocate to a red state, as long as they are self-sufficient and don´t expect any government handouts.
Succession is an emotional reaction to our current situation. Can you see all 57 states with their own currency, post office, etc. Would you like it if you were driving to another state and were stopped by customs and had to declare what you´ve got. What about the gold in Fort Knox? Who gets that. We´re stuck with this country. And the country is over because a majority of the voters see the role of government is to steal from the workers and give to the bums.
If a state were to secede, it could simply implement a propaganda policy aimed at making the Gullible Class (ie, dimocrats) believe that there was free money in California and the seceding state would soon be free of the Morons in Our Midst.
Time to refloat my recent proposal... for the... Divided States of America.
The Heartland Red States will happily wave Buh-Bye to the following general regions... What I like to call... The Four Corners (plus Chicago-Madison area)
Coastal California consisting of Liberoids... Puget Sound area plus Hawaii... South Florida Liberoid areas... Northeast from No. Virg Suburbs of DC to Maine including Philly, etc... Great Lakes Liberoids in Chicago and Wisconsin...
The Four Corners (The Divided States of America)... can have the Liberoid Agenda...
The Red States of the Heartland remain normal traditional America... Ronald Reagan´s America.
Works for me. Gotta go... this is the short speedy version...
I am a lineal descendent of men who stoof barefoot in mud and ice, firing upon Washington empowered Blue Coats to literally save the Constitution.
To Save The Constitution
“When the South raised its sword against the Union’s Flag, it was in defense of the Union’s Constitution.” Confederate General John B. Gordon
“Instead of friends, I see in Washington only mortal enemies. Instead of loving the old flag of the stars and stripes, I see in it only the symbol of murder, plunder, oppression, and shame.” Rose O’Neal Greenhow, Confederate Spy
Dr Williams raised this issue before, I think around the time of Obie´s first coronation. He clearly doesn´t think the danger has subsided in the meantime. People who love the Constitution are being pushed beyond their power to abide the abuse. Maybe red states can reclaim some of their sovereignty through negotiation, and achieve a "soft landing". But if not, blood will flow.
The first myth about the "civil war" is that it was a "Civil War". A civil war is where opposing sides fight for control of the country. The so called "civil war" would be better called any of the following:
The War of Northern Agression The Unpleasantness Between the States The War of Southern Session The War of of Southern Independance The Southern Revolution.
The second myth of the civil war is that it was fought over "slavery". Slavery was adopted by Lincoln as a justification to wage war on the Confederate States of America in order to gain the "moral high ground". The north may have been anti-slavery, but they were and continue to be more racist than anything that I´ve seen in the south.
A serious national discussion of this matter might awaken some of the bubble-dwellers of the realities serious minded people recognize and are preparing to deal with, relative to their utopian fantasies and arrogant parasitic predation on the producers in this country.
How could separation be unconstitutional in light of the first words of the Declaration of Independence... "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature´s God entitle them" If America separated from England why could a state not separate from the USA?
Oh, this is just the beginning of the beginning of the dismantling of the United States of America. The disaster is just starting to unfold it´s webbed wings to display its full glory. We are in for a hell ride and all we can do now is hold on.
Now, wait. Think. The Southern States successfully achieved secession. The remaining states in the Union had raised no huge levy of forces, or up-armed. The Union had surrendered most arsenals, equipment and supplies, though some more jealous Federal agents burned their depots rather than let the Confederacy have them. It was a peaceful secession altogether. And them came the issue over Ft. Sumter and the Southern hotheads fired a shot in anger at a legally held Federal military base. It was on! If the Southerners had simply held their peace and had refrained from going to violence, merely for violence sake, they would to this day still be an independent nation. Secession is one thing- a declaration of war is entirely another.
It all depends on how you perceive the Union part of "united" states. In the 1860´s, the south felt the union was like joining a club or a church. If you don´t like the rules, you are free to leave and go to another club or down the road to another church. That would be how Jeff Davis and others felt. Many other people, however, felt the union was more like a marriage. You can´t get a divorce without permission. You can´t just walk out. That´s how Lincoln (the lawyer) felt. Many southerners who voted to leave the union were the same guys who had voted to ENTER the union. (Especially in Texas. Thus, they thought they could just leave.
The south, however, had "benefited" from the marriage (harbors, roads, forts, bridges, etc) and owed a bill to the other states for these services. Many civil war historians actually believe that had the southern states united in a federal law suit and sued to leave the union, they would have won the right to do so in Congress. However,part of the divorce settlement meant paying "alimony" to the other states for awhile and many southerners didn´t want that. Sadly, it led to a hot war too soon. We all know the rest. Lincoln, like Obama, didn´t let the crisis go to waste. He used that as an excuse to fight back (knowing he had more resources) and got what he wanted down deep. The end of slavery --- as well as preserving the Union.
Today, we may find ourselves like the U.S.S.R. when the Ukraine started to pull out. The Russian army refused to shoot their cousins (remember Yeltsin on the tank saying "shoot me!"). The good news is the U.S. military will never support Obama and fire on fellow Americans (as long as they don´t foolishly shoot first!) in which case "suing to leave the Union" is actually a quite viable option.
#53, escalating taxation of the South to fund infrastructure development in the North was one of the triggers of the war. The South was the wealth generator at that point in time, not the other way around.
Here we go again... Nope, won´t work. #7, 15, 17 & 34 (to name a few) are correct. And yes, you would be not only creating balkinization but the red states will be cut off from most of the coastal ports which will hurt them the most. Williams is looking at the civil war too simplistically still. While the right of a state to secede is there, would it really be in that state´s or the country´s best interest to do so? The same reason exists today (if not more so) as existed in 1861 for not allowing secession to occur. It creates economic and military vulnerability. We would essentially be destroying any chance of restoring this great country and we would likely be taken over by foreign interests. And, is it right to cut families apart or to abandon those folks who have fought hard all these years to get their home states back from the leftists? BTW, Reagan´s "country" was California--not Kansas or Texas.
I think this was a splendid article and thanks for posting it. I know my teachers in grade school were astounded when I told them I thought lincoln should have left the south alone and btw, there were not that many slaves in the south. You had to be wealthy to buy them from the europeans and the south had their cotton and raised their own food and they, for the most part, took care of the slaves as valuable property. Not right, but it was that time - Margaret Mitchell and Gone With the Wind is very accurate and well researched. My fav book.
Secession would only be achievable by war or forcing the federal government into insolvency. Both of these have very ugly outcomes...or, do we maintain the status quo, the left stays in control with a state-run media´s help, control of the schools, and control of banks, and control of our money.
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