Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer said after Thursday night’s debate that Vice President Joe Biden’s demeanor cost him a potential debate win over Republican Rep. Paul Ryan. “If you read the transcript, I think it’s dead even,” Krauthammer said. ”If you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched on television, he lost. In the transcript, if you just look at the raw arguments I think it was even because each side had points to make and made them. I think on balance, not one side was stronger than another.” (Snip) “He did a lot of interrupting as well.
Comments: Biden outright lied (about a lot of things) but especially that 0bama wasn't compelling any religion to act in a way that was conflicting with their beliefs. As Ryan pointed out, why the lawsuits then over constitutional rights? I'm afraid I usually rank arguments such as this on debating points more than appearance and so give Biden no bonus for being forceful or bullying. Thus Ryan would have won on the radio to me too as well as on television. I might have to look at the transcripts because a couple of times when Biden was speaking I wrote down
I was in a room of about 10 couples watching the debate almost like a "Super Bowl of Politics". The most significant reaction in the room after the debate wasn't any particular topic or zinger by either candidate, but the bizarre, incessant, creepy smile by Biden. The women in the room in particular were very vocal about that. I believe that will be the one memorable take away of this debate.
The official count is that Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times--82 times!
To me, Ryan won big--especially in demonstrating huge self-control in not telling Plugs to knock it off. Me? I would have knocked that $100K dental job down his throat to stop that insane grin and shut the punk up.
On issues, I gave up counting utter lies at 43. I didn't even bother to count distortions or wrong perspectives.
I think a lot of people on the right are wishing that Ryan was more forceful, more aggressive in fending off Biden and calling out Raddatz on her unbalanced treatment of the two men.
Everybody knows Biden is a loudmouth boor. I believe he was deliberately disrespectful and even more boorish than usual in order to get under Ryan’s skin and cause him to lash out, become snarky, and generally lose his cool.
Ryan didn’t bite. However good we might have felt at home if Ryan had put Mr. Obnoxious in his place (or gone after the moderator), the story today would have been, “Ryan loses it in the heat of battle,” or, "Ryan whines about moderator."
No, Ryan bit his tongue and denied that idiot the satisfaction of successfully goading him into intemperate remarks, of becoming like, um, Biden. Kudos to Ryan and his team.
Bloggers counted 82 Biden interruptions. I wanted Ryan to call Biden on this, but he didn't, not even once. Raddatz was terrible - did not discipline Biden, cut Ryan off several times, not letting him finish his point. Biden lost many undecideds with his antics. Win for Ryan by default.
I had to stop watching, I was giving myself a headache screaming at the tv. I feel this is a VERY serious time in our life, my country's life, and this buffoon is up there laughing? I watched the re-runs of the debate with Gov. Palin (which she won in my eyes)and there was a lot more dignity and grown up behavior from the clown. If he pulled the garbage he staged last night with the Governor, women would be outraged. Well, I'm a woman, my country is VERY important to me, and I was infuriated watching the vice-president stifle a serious discussion, and treat his position and my intellect with zero respect.
At the end of the debate I thought to myself how hard it had been to watch the debate. I could not wait for it to be over because of Joe's obnoxious behavior, and the worst moderator I can remember. I thought some of her questions were ridiculous considering the many serious concerns we have in this country and globally as well.
Personally, I think Biden's inappropriate behavior was intentional .... the meme from the Romney/nObama debate was that nObama was "off" because he couldn't believe the extent of lies told by Romney. Biden's performance was meant to instill in folks minds just how brazen these Republicans are.
I have believed for years that Plugs is a closet drunk. Last night confirmed it for me.
I've always been puzzled as to why he was picked for VP. Something has always been hinkey about that. It was either political payoff or extortion of some sort.
I've always been puzzled as to why people like Brit Hume and Chris Wallace talk about Biden's "niceness." There's nothing nice about him. He puts me in mind of a reptile. I despise him --have for years, and I don't see how anyone can spend more than three minutes with him [as Wallace and Hume obviously have] and not come away running for a hot shower and bar of lye soap.
I hate Biden, but I thought to the uninformed he would sound better than Ryan as he talked more forceful and thats what the underclass gets. Joe always finds a way to screw up! This time he went so overboard with his grins, loud sighs, insults,interruptions and such he completely under minded his arguments. He found a way to lose. Nobody will remember the words spoken, they will remember how much like a clown he looked and thats what they will be talking about for the next week! Thats all we should be repeating over and over on every blog.
What #8 and #13 said. If people were listening on the radio, perhaps they would not see the snickering and insane gyrations of biden, but they WOULD hear him interrupt Paul Ryan more than 82 times! IMO, there is NO way biden won anything but the moron-of-the-week-award. With apologies to morons who aren't joe biden.
Reply 30 - Posted by:
Bad Dog, 10/12/2012 7:53:53 AM (No. 8927711)
This VP debate last night was one thing:
It was typical of how Democrats act and govern.
They lie, yell, smirk, ''isolate and ridicule'', and generally behave totally inappropriately for their setting and the occasion.
In other words, like preschoolers.
Paul Ryan showed he was mature beyond his age, patient like a father of small children should be, and on the intellectual level that will clean the Democrat dookie off the national walls.
I like Team R&R even MORE (and I didn't think that was possible!), and Team O-B even less (again, didn't think that was possible).
It is deeply disturbing to me, though, how many Ohioans in Frank Luntz's focus group last night on Hannity were impressed by Biden's behavior. Is everyone in Ohio in a labor union of some kind? Sheesh....
I don't think it was a draw, Biden had the Obama talking points, he he said nothing different, and he WAS obnoxious. Krauthammer's lifting his Obama cheerleader skirt again. He's taken up CNNs line: "debate was a draw, no biggy, Joe had valid points, next time he'll be on his meds".
Only way the debate could be a draw is is you agree with both men's arguments equally, and the arguments this cycle are too diametrically opposed to believe equally. You either agree with one side or the other.
Ryan showed the country that he's intelligent, serious, & capable of leading the country should anything happen to Romney. biteme was an embarrassment, a circus clown, unserious, & a complete turn-off. Literally.
Before I comment on the juvenile delinquent sidekick of our self-described “polite” President Obama, a few words about my long-standing crusade to rid the world of totally unnecessary Presidential and Vice-Presidential debate “moderators.” Exhibit “A”: Martha Raddatz. The woman constantly insinuated herself into the proceedings, somewhat akin to that unwelcome, obnoxious, pushy relative almost everyone has who monopolizes the conversation and who must be endured at every Thanksgiving dinner. In short, political debates at such a lofty level do not require intrusive moderators; only an equal-time-keeper to insure fairness.
Now, about Joe Biden. By way of his childish, smirking, blatantly inappropriate behavior, he dispelled any doubt whatsoever that he might be a certifiable horse’s rear.
I don't get my liberal friends. How can they support the candidate whose constituents yell "gotta gets me a Obama phone" and whose running mate vacillated between creepy carnival barker and creepy undertaker in one 90-minute "debate"? I would be embarrassed to be associated with such rude, uncivilised, thuggish, low lifes. These are your people, Dems. Is that really the image you want to portray? Shameful. Oh my, how our Patriot ancestors must be weeping.
As I watched the debate, THIS is the Joe Biden I saw ... .... The furious man who, after making a misstatement during a public congressional hearing, viciously turned on the aide behind him and snarled words similar to, 'it's about time you began to earn the money I pay you!' .... One who presented the same condensending attitude as Lloyd Bentsen when the latter pompously looked his nose down at Dan Quayle. .... The Cheshsire Cat. .... Pinocchio.
The most uncomfortable debate I have ever watched. Imagine spending hours preparing for a serious debate and having to do so with a clown, smiling grimacing, interrupting and distracting so you cannot make your points. FOr me the highlight was when Ryan thanked Biden, and old JOe looked down a little chagrined or hopefully ashamed.
Bet you lost a few Independent voters on this. The face and teeth of the Democrat party.
I just commented to a friend this morning what the above poster said. The face of the Democrat party anymore is shameful. Just look at the antics of Stephanie Cutter and Debbie Blabbermouth Schultz. Add that to the total disregard for any truth about serious issues and they are lost. Biden came out trying to be strong to make up for his weak running mate, but only came across as overbearing. Just like the rest of the party.
My impression was that Biden was making many of those faces to the moderator, like the two of them were sharing an inside joke of something. She acted more like Biden's handler most of the time. She had a habit of interrupting Ryan just as he was making a point and letting Biden have a rebuttal before Ryan even got to his point. I am not sure how Ryan could have handled this any better than he did. I just can't believe she was the best the country could do for a moderator.
Regarding the actual debate, Biden really came off as a lunatic to me. He was laughing during some pretty serious issues. My observation is that these two clowns look really small and "bush league" next to Romney and Ryan.
Thought Biden looked angry, his index finger and pen pointing and jabbing towards the clueless Radditz which probably turned off women. Used to think Biden was kind of amusing like a crazy uncle but after his in chains comment I despise him as much as I do Pelosi and Reid, etc.
BTW why does Lucianne disappear during the debates? Happened with both.
Biden typifies every gas bag senator that was ever impersonated in comedy, from old time radio to SNL. His facial contortions, interruptions, angry pointing of fingers, ludicrous smiles, are all bad opera from another time when you had to play grotesquely loud and over obvious to the last guy in the back of the house. Circus clowns exaggerate like Senator Blowhard. Charles grades dead even on their content, Biden slightly ahead if you listened only on radio, but Biden was the interrrupting big time loser watching his antics on TV. Krauthamer's observations and conclusions are totally satidfying in sensibility, and his closing line that it didn't change the vote, because most people do not vote for VP, they vote for the guy running for president. Well done Charles. And, Paul was a bit confusing, speed talk is tough to follow, but he gave a sensational closing, looking straight at the viewer with an open and sensible style.
I became so irritated watching Biden grinning like a jackass eating briars that I switched over to watch Project Runway. As I reflect back, it was probably considered the lesser of two evils by his debate coach. When Biden gets mad he really makes a fool of himself. So they trained him to be dismissive and haughty instead.
Agree with all above. I have to ask though ~ was he prepped by Juan Williams? He had the exact same mannerisms as Juan has when he is on a panel and a conservative panel member is trying to make a point. The eyerolls, shrugs, snickers etc.
I could only watch about an hour of the debate; it made me so uncomfortable.
Krauthammer is correct. Though I probably shouldn't comment on the debate, since I had to turn off the TV set after about half an hour -- due to blood pressure problems. Biden is an irritant on the level with anhydrous ammmonia. The demented chimpanzee grin, the nonstop filibustering, the interruptions intended to keep Ryan from making his points, the flat out lying about medicare, Obamacare -- and the Middle East -- it was intolerable.
Come on people! Don't you get it? The over-riding narrative after the Romney/Obama debate was that everything Romney said was a lie. Biden's singular mission was to make like everything that came out of Ryan's mouth was a lie. The interruptions, the smirks, the comments, all for that purpose. Everything is a lie. Simple as that...
The worst national debate in US history. Raddatz was horrendous -she interrupted Ryan almost as often as Biden did. She could not control Biden and that did not seem to bother her. Ryan was cool, calm and reassuring. Biden looked like he has a variant of Tourette Syndrome. At times he looked like Jack Nicholson in The Shining- Heeeeere's Joey!!!! What a disaster. Ryan's presidential demeanor will obviously increase the Mittmentum.
Did anyone notice afterwards that Paul Ryan's mother got ol Joe in an armlock and was giving him an earful, straight and direct, and he was standing there taking it and looking very uncomfortable? She had a nice smile and was clearly slipping a knife into him. He was trying to look polite but it was clear she was dressing him down.
Biden is Obie's hitman, pure and simple. He lied so many times, made up facts and on top of all that he was so disrespectful he totally lost the debate on his pathetic demeanor. I kept waiting for the moment when Ryan would severly backhand him and knock him totally out of his chair! It was amazing to me that Ryan resisted the instinct!
The witch from ABC also cut off Ryan many times as did Biden's constant interruptions. I think the ABC/Biden agreement was to keep Ryan off his game, interrupt him so much he could never finish a point and their game was to disrupt Ryan to the point he looked incompetent.
A defininate LOSS for Biden, someone needs to slap his face so hard he will be permanently looking backwards, as all Dims do anyway.
Suggestion to the Romney/Ryan campaign...show the mysery of lots of Americans due to Obama's policies/actions and have a picture of both Obama and Biden in the upper corners...with their condescending SMILE!
Right on the Koran aspect, #43. You'd think with how whipped up the muslims are lately, allegedly from some moving pictures, the media would tread light. Unfortunately, no, they just have to ask questions about burning Korans. She should ask Biden about that as it happened on his watch, not Ryan's.
Biden must have really been schooled in the seriousness of this and his expected outcome-he cranked it up to hysteria. In Star Trek terms, Biden took the Dem Enterprise to warp 13, although the engines are only ranked warp 10. So never mind if he damaged the machine.
Paul Ryan is a gracious gentleman and a fine person. When he mentioned that Mitt had given 30% of his income to charity last year, and then said to Biden "that's more than you and me combined", I nearly did a spit-take with a mouth full of iced tea. Like most libs, Joe Biden gives virtually nothing to charity or to Church. Ryan's assertion would make people think that Joe Biden actually opens his own wallet to help others, which, of course, he rarely ever does.
With the debate over, Ryan should vow to never again act deferential or overly kind to liberals in any manner, way, shape or form. They don't recognize or reciprocate class, but rather they see it as a weakness and with the medias help will always use any friendliness bestowed on them to hurt the person who offered it. Dubya was kind and generous with his words and they chewed on him every day for 8 years. First, I pray that Romney & Ryan will win, and secondly, I hope that they won't reach across the proverbial aisle because that's why conservatism never advances.
Reply 70 - Posted by:
beat the press, 10/12/2012 9:28:52 AM (No. 8927934)
New RNC ad should be to the following tune:
"Smiling faces sometimes pretend to be your friend Smiling faces show no traces of the evil that lurks within Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes They don't tell the truth uh Smiling faces, smiling faces Tell lies and I got proof"
Reply 72 - Posted by:
little guy, 10/12/2012 9:46:45 AM (No. 8927989)
If Cheney had been that disrespectful to the female moderator he would have been brought up on charges of sexual harassment. Biden pointed his finger at her, talked over her and basically dominated her by using his position as VP to intimidate her. The only thing he didn't do was call her "little girl" or "sweetheart".
And that phony "my friend" junk to Ryan came across as what it was .... patronizing. Had Ryan reacted, the press would say he wasn't presidential material. He was easily rattled, if he can't handle Biden he can't handle Putin, blah, blah, blah. I rate the whole thing as: Ryan - 82 points, Biden - 73. Then I would fine Biden 5 points for rudeness.
1) To the burning Korans, Ryan should have reminded us that the prisoners had desecrated the Korans by righting in them and using them to pass information between each other. Then, say that burning is the approved method of destroying desecrated Korans. Why isn't this said more? (Because it doesn't make us look bad.
2) A number of times Biden grinned was in response to Ryan saying details would have to be worked out in a bi-partisian way. I took the grin to be saying you compromise isn't possible. But lets remember the Health Care Debate, where no Republican suggestions were taken, and Obama stated "I WON" (at least I think that was a time he stated that).
3) Biden demonstrated just how well debate works with the Democrats, we wouldn't let Ryan finish his thoughts. He would not listen to anything that he did not agree with.
4) While Ryan offered suggestions to help save Social Security and Medicare, Biden offered NOTHING.
Joe was better during the last 1/3 of the debate, but I suspect that millions of people were turned off by his behavior and switched channels 30 minutes into the show. I too was screaming "shut up...this is serious business." Military and out-of-work families had to have been feeling the same way. It's no laughing matter.
I agree that by Ryan keeping his cool, Biden's lack of decorum is the topic of today rather than Biden successfully getting under Ryan's skin.
Dr. Krauthammer, for whom I have the utmost respect, has disappointed me by repeatedly attributing brilliance to Obama, right up until after the disastrous debate performance, and in a similar vein thinks that the fatuous, fluently lying Biden won last night's debate by essentially shouting down the gentlemanly Ryan, who would not have been out of bounds if he had clouted the sighing, grinning, guffawing idiot clean off his chair.
Not only did Biden interrupt Ryan an unbelievable 82 times--the moderator repeatedly cut off Ryan just as he was making important points, allowing Biden to counter but not Ryan to counter Biden. Unbelievable. I can see how SEIU types might admire Biden's performance--they're all insufferable asses--but people who are truly in the center must have been horrified to see and hear Biden.
I know a few things about formal debating, and about how these contests are scored. In NFL--that's National Forensic League--competition a competitor playing the Biden game would be escorted offstage and disqualified for gross violation of the rules, to say nothing of the minute by minute indecency he displayed. What a doofus.
As Bob Dylan wrote ("Positively Fourth Street"): "I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes, and just for that one moment I could be you. Yes, I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes. You'd know what a drag it is to see you."
Al Gore did the same thing...ran in the opposite direction after each debate and made a bigger fool of himself each time. I'm sure Biden was under orders to come across as powerful. But lies are not very powerful next to the truth, and Biden came across as maniacal instead.
Watched with my kids and their first reaction to Biden's radioactive smile was to jerk back away from the t.v. This went on for so long we all got headaches.
At the point where Biden started pointing his bony finger and yelling at the moderator, I thought liberal women must really love misogynists. How could she sit there and take such abuse otherwise? It was like a balm on my ears to hear Ryan's calm voice and see the earnest honesty and kindness coming out of him.
I agree there were times when I wished Ryan had given a dressing down, but with the way those two idiots were behaving, I think he chose the right path. I don't hear anyone ranting this morning about Ryan's behavior.
After the illusion of Biden's "victory" wears away, only his cheshire grin will be left along with all his lies. It may be a good strategy to let the libs get over-confident until Nov. 6. I don't think they know what's coming...and I'd feel better keeping it that way.
#51 writes: "Biden typifies every gas bag senator that was ever impersonated in comedy, from old time radio to SNL. (snip) like Senator Blowhard."
Groan! This is such a deadly accurate description of Biden!
No wonder Obama wanted to keep him as VP. He is a perfect lightning rod to divert attention from Obama's failings. Anyone considering a vote for Obama should remember this 'debate' vividly. One heartbeat from the presidency, behind a president whose health is being questioned.
"....Paul was a bit confusing, speed talk is tough to follow...."
Perhaps he felt that talking fast was his only hope of getting anything said.
I must confess that I kept changing the channel during the "debate". I simply couldn't stand to listen to Biden. But I did get the gist of things.
And I'd like to remind all that interrupting, talking over, shouting down, and other forms of disruption are what liberals do. And that's in any forum you can think up. It's there way to "get in the last word" which, in their world, is their way of saying "I won". Yes, it's disgraceful, but have you ever heard a liberal that wasn't?
By the standards ordinarily employed to judge a debate (not those employed. last night, by MSM pundits), Ryan won the debate hands down. No question. He was clear, he was organized, he was factual, he was articulate, and, above all, he was persuasive. Moreover, he managed to be all of those things, despite constant interruptions by a juvenile gasbag.
According to CNN the swing voters went with Ryan ... we won. We went into the debate ahead, the polls had swung to Romney. Neither Ryan or Biden picked up any base from the other ... but we got more of the independents. We won. Biden lost, the polls will not shift over this unless it is more toward Romney. Plus, having fired this shot Obama will have to be more restrained in the next debates which will get into his head as a distraction by trying to be more forceful but not Biden-like. Our game. Now watch out for all the cheating by them in the votes.
Ryan could have scored big while ansering the first question about our dead Ambassador by stopping and asking" Is this a laughing matter to you, Joe? The familes of the dead, and all American People do not see anything funny about this serious matter." THWAP. The questions were very serious, and Biden thought they were a joke.
Am I missing something here? It was evident to me that the debate involved three people.The Republican candidate in one side and the Moderator and Democrat mouthpieces on the other side. Even in the sport of boxing where the aim is to defeat the oponent within the rules of the "game" each boxer is permited to use two hands. At this debate there were two mouthpieces vs one and one the the two mouthpieces was the referee. Wake Up America or forever live to regret it!
Was thinking the same thing, #77 - didn't the ManBearPig's debating "style" go down in history as a resounding loss because of an excess of intrusive and irritating fake sighing while his opponent was speaking?
Biden was far worse. Ignore whatever the lamstream and far left says today. Decisive loss by Biden. It will also go down in history as what _not_ to do in a debate.
And if they do delude themselves that Biden somehow "won" by being "forceful," well, indeed, that will only give them false confidence going into their inevitable defeat at the polls, not to mention in the next two debates.
I don't get it Dr. K. How does Biden win on his arguments by repeating a lie like the $5 trillion in tax cuts? BO repeated it multiple times in his debate and he sounded like a broken record against Romney's explanations. Maybe Ryan should have been a bit more forceful in countering the lies but he doesn't have Romney's experience in dealing with disruptive actors like Biden.
Biden reformed the dem arguments? By repeating lies and distortions? By denying truth? Knowledgeable people know that Biden is lying. Uninformed people will decide on personality and Biden was annoying at best. A disrespectful, blustering buffoon most likely. Moderates don't like that kind of behavior. They want us all to "get along" and Biden clearly doesn't know how.
Biden certainly encouraged his base who wanted him to attack. Are you one of those Dr. K? The rest of us see Biden as a blow hard loser.
How many thousands of times has Biden stood before his bathroom mirror and practiced that toothy smile? He'll be remembered for his sickening, frightening smile like Gore is remembered for his sighs and Dean is remembered for his screams.
But where does Krauthammer come off calling the debate a win for Biden? I've been concerned about Charles for some time because this isn't an isolated incident. His reasoning increasingly leaves me shaking my head in wonder.
Biden "won" only in the sense that he came off better than Obama, and fed red meat to the lunatic base. Ryan did what he had to do. I'm sure that he thought of and was prepared to deliver a few cutting one-liners, but decided that keeping his cool was the better course. He was right.
Recent articles about the Washington "press" has boiled their allowances for Joe Biden down to: He throws the best parties. He is free with the booze at these parties. Joe's a lush. How many different colors can one man turn in 90 minutes? He was rude and condescending and would encounter troubles at a setting in a bar, talking and gawking the way he does. It appeared he was fighting Tourette's Syndrome, unsuccessfully.
After several minutes of the debate I thought that VP Biden's visage looked like Jack Nicholson's Joker Face in the Batman flick. I also thought that Axelrod had input in how old smiley Biden was to act in the debate. I agree with the rest of our LDotters:Biden looked and acted like the Court Jester Village Idiot to the hundredth degree.
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